No announcement yet.

Origins of Haplogroup T -- Italy or Near East

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Origins of Haplogroup T -- Italy or Near East

    I am extremely confused about the origins of haplogroup T. According to the Genographic Project, it "is similar to haplogroup J--both descended from parent haplogroup R and originated in the Near East about 10,000 years ago. Probably farmers, members of haplogroup T brought agricultural practices to Europe. Today, T is found more frequently in the Ural mountains and Baltics of western Eurasia."

    According to Oxford Ancestors, T, which they refer to as Tara, "includes slightly fewer than 10% of modern Europeans. Its many branches are widely distributed throughout southern and western Europe with particularly high concentrations in Ireland and the west of Britain. Tara herself lived 17,000 years ago in the northwest of Italy among the hills of Tuscany and along the estuary of the river Arno."

    These two sources seem to completely contradict one another. Does this have anything to do with the T subgroups? Did some T subgroups wind up in western Europe while others ended up in the Baltics?

    I'm in T2, with the following differences from CRS: 16126C, 16294T, 16296T, 16304C, 16519C

    I can farthest I can trace my direct maternal line back is in Norway to Ingrid Olesdatter Utby of Tynset, who was born in 1694. As a Norwegian, it would have been easy for her to have either eastern or western European ancestors as the Vikings engaged in the slave trade in both areas.

    Any help would be much appreciated!!!

    Janet Poff

  • #2

    You are justifiably confused. This is why I dislike greatly Oxford Ancestors' clever anthropomorphism of haplogroups.

    You know there was no "Tara" (you'd be surprised, some don't!) but you should also know that their estimates for where these women lived are also highly speculative.

    A poster named Hetware has posted some good stuff on the proof (or lack thereof) of any of the refuge areas during and after the Last Glacial Maximum (ice age). See the Genographic Project forum.

    In sum, the location of the first haplogroup ancestor for most haplogroups (even R1b for males) is still debated. I for one find the mtDNA speculation hard to swallow, especially when modern concentrations are so far from the original situs.

    Comments, anyone?


    • #3
      The same inconsistency also applies to Mtdna haplogroup J. It is possible that J1 migrated to the Baltics and J2 to western Europe. However there is some Spanish data that contradicts this pattern.