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G-M201 -- G-PF15 -- G-PF3296

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  • G-M201 -- G-PF15 -- G-PF3296

    I paid for a Y-DNA67 test for a relative. His predicted Haplogroup is G-M201. Of his 11 matches at the 67 marker level, 9 are G-P15 and two are G-PF3296. None are G-M201.
    The two that are G-PF3296 also show PF3296 listed under terminal SNP. Two of the G-P15's show P15 listed under terminal SNP. The others show blank under terminal SNP.

    Am baffled why the close matches are not to the same Haplogroup - especially why none of them are. Information appreciated.


    [OOPS - Can't edit title -- should show G-P15 there, not G-PF15 - fixed body of text while writing it - forgot I also had it that way in title ]
    Last edited by loobster; 4 November 2014, 03:50 PM.

  • #2
    Those are all in the same haplogroup.

    M201 defines Haplogroup G overall. P15 is further down the tree at G2a, and PF3296 is even further refined at G2a2b1c.

    So the guys who are PF3296+ are also certainly P15+ and M201+.

    The guys who are P15+ are also M201+. They may very well be PF3296+, but may have not tested for that SNP.

    If your relative is open to it, I highly recommend adding his kit to the Haplogroup G project here at FTDNA. Ray Banks is the administrator, and he is extremely knowledgeable about Haplogroup G. I am confident that he can quickly look at your relative's results, predict a subclade, and offer recommendations for further testing.

    There's also a great deal of info on his homepage for the project here: https://sites.google.com/site/haplogroupgproject/

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    • #3
      Digesting. Cannot say any of it speaks to me much yet.

      Four of the matches did Terminal SNPs - but for the rest, if they did not do any SNP testing, why would those all show as G-P15, rather than G-M201, but be matches to someone who is listed as G-M201 [including 3 at zero steps, only one of whom shows a Terminal SNP]? Or do I have to assume they all paid for some SNP testing? Or??

      re: "Those are all in the same haplogroup." -
      They are DIFFERENT entries on the Y-DNA Matches Page, under the column heading of "Y-DNA Haplogroup" [and on his Homepage,in the box labelled "Y-DNA Haplogroup" it says G-M201]--
      is FTDNA using incorrect terminology, a different terminology from the one you use, phrasing things poorly, or ???

      Also - no "+" sign in any of the entries under "Y-DNA Haplogroup" on Matches Page, nor in box for his Y-DNA Haplogroup - but you use it repeatedly - as in G-M201 vs G-M201+ -- different conventions, or different meanings or ???
      Last edited by loobster; 4 November 2014, 09:38 PM.

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      • #4
        The + sign is just a convention which indicates someone is 'positive' for that SNP; in other words, they have the derived, rather than the ancestral allele at that SNP location.

        FTDNA doesn't bother putting the + on the match page, since if a particular SNP is listed there, it should be obvious that they are 'positive'. They do, however, use it on the 'Haplotree & SNPs' page. If you look toward the bottom of that page, there is a list of additional SNPs tested for that kit, and those which are derived are listed with a +, and those which are ancestral are listed with a -.

        Now, as for those men who are listed on your relative's matches page, again they all belong to M201 (Haplogroup G). Some of them have just had some additional testing which places them further down the tree.

        M201
        |__P287
        |___P15
        |__L1259
        |__L30
        |__M406
        |__PF3296

        As for why some of them are showing as P15 yet not showing a terminal SNP, I'm not sure exactly why that is, but my guess would be that FTDNA was able to more confidently predict them as P15+ (G2a) based on their STR haplotype. I'm sure that Ray could give you a more definite answer on that.

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