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Is the YHRD marker set meaningful?

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  • #16
    As a footnote to this thread, if anybody is still reading...

    I put different values for 385a,b in the Athey predictor

    Just to see what haplogroups would come up. Leaving all other slots empty (important detail)

    11,13 Score N=100 R1b=35 others minor
    11,14 Score N=100 R1b=100 N=32 Q=25 G=21
    11,15 Score R1b=49 R1a=40 I1b=35

    As stated above our project has several examples of all the above combos and all are R1b. Notice the strong affiliation of N, but taken with the other markers this affinity vanishes.

    When you take this test further with twelve markers then you start to narrow the scope down to 1 haplogroup like R1b for example. My argument is that is that while you can say with reasonable certainty that a set of 12 markers is indicative of a specific haplogroup I don't think it has the predicitve power to go much beyond that very old and very braod category.

    I hope this makes my point clearer than my previous clumsy attempt.


    • #17
      Originally posted by Hrodberht
      As to human origins, the Out of Africa model is mere fashionable political dogma. See the following:

      Hammer et al. uncovered an East Asian polymorphism dating back to 2 million years ago-

      Hrodberth, good point; but there are not one, but numerous "Out of Africa" models, beyond "mere fashionable dogma". (Presumably there are also "Out of elsewhere" models out there; no 5. !)

      Here are some:-

      1. Unitary exit of one solitary batch of HSS (Homo Sapiens Sapiens) 100,000 years ago replacing all previous forms and becoming diverse by radiation of the usual evolutionary outcomes.

      2. A long period of successive migrations of serial batches of HSS, with evolved DNA differences minor enough to allow unimpeded procreative mixing with previous batches of migrant HSS, but leading to increasing haplogroup and autosomal DNA isolate diversity.

      3. An even longer period (500,000y? more?) of stuttering exAfric migration with major autosomal differences in successive batches leading to pragmatic scarce fossil classifications as subspecies differing from HSS. Here on a sliding scale, we get first into isolates of HSS haplogroup and autosomal variants, then H.Neandertalensis, Heidelbergensis, H Erectus variants etc. In these the possibility of mixing with each other, or with HSS may well have existed and is still under dispute. How far back, and where, archaic-form admixture went on is anybody's guess, but your valuable link paper is certainly food for thought.

      4. Any of the above; but with more than one geographic portal of exit from Africa.

      5. Sites of origin other than Africa?