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  • A question about ySearch results.

    I hope I have placed this thread in the right sub-forum. Always unsure on where to place my concerns and questions on new forums. I am hoping someone could give me advice and/or confirmation on my recent ySearch search.

    My 3xgreat-Grandfather was born out of wedlock and took his mothers name of Clark. A few months back I took a Y37 test and had only one match 'pop up' on the matches screen with, obviously, a different surname than mine. This person is showing a distance of 4 on FTDNA and ySearch. Recently, I have seen other members uploading their results to ySearch (from FTDNA yet oddly they haven't shown on my FTDNA matches screen) and they are all of a distance of 5 and with the same surnames as the 4. We are all tested at 37 markers.
    There is another one with the surname shared by the others, but he has only tested to 25 markers and has a distance of 5.

    Now, the question I want reassurance and advice upon is this: All of the surnames of these men is Fox. One of the men on ySearch has family from the very same area of Bristol as myself. The rest seem to be of long US resident lineage. Would it be acceptable for me to assume that my 4xgreat-Grandfathers surname was Fox? Or have I completely misinterpreted the results and it is in fact just a coincidence?

  • #2
    Originally posted by BristolClark View Post
    I hope I have placed this thread in the right sub-forum. Always unsure on where to place my concerns and questions on new forums. I am hoping someone could give me advice and/or confirmation on my recent ySearch search.

    My 3xgreat-Grandfather was born out of wedlock and took his mothers name of Clark. A few months back I took a Y37 test and had only one match 'pop up' on the matches screen with, obviously, a different surname than mine. This person is showing a distance of 4 on FTDNA and ySearch. Recently, I have seen other members uploading their results to ySearch (from FTDNA yet oddly they haven't shown on my FTDNA matches screen) and they are all of a distance of 5 and with the same surnames as the 4. We are all tested at 37 markers.
    There is another one with the surname shared by the others, but he has only tested to 25 markers and has a distance of 5.

    Now, the question I want reassurance and advice upon is this: All of the surnames of these men is Fox. One of the men on ySearch has family from the very same area of Bristol as myself. The rest seem to be of long US resident lineage. Would it be acceptable for me to assume that my 4xgreat-Grandfathers surname was Fox? Or have I completely misinterpreted the results and it is in fact just a coincidence?
    With a GD of 4 at 37 markers it is not safe to assume that you are related recently. Even a GD of 4 at 67 may not be a close relation. You would need a close match at a minimum of 67 markers tested to define a relationship. I had a match at 34/37 but when the other guy tested to 67 we were a GD of 16 at 67 markers.

    Comment


    • #3
      Larmuseau 2014
      "Y-chromosomal short tandem repeats (Y-STRs) are often used in addition to Y-chromosomal single-nucleotide polymorphisms (Y-SNP) to detect subtle patterns in a population genetic structure. There are, however, indications for Y-STR haplotype resemblance across different subhaplogroups within haplogroup R1b1b2 (R-M269) which may lead to erosion in the observation of the population genetic pattern. Hence the question arises whether Y-STR haplotypes are still informative beyond high-resolution Y-SNP genotyping for population genetic studies. To address this question, we genotyped the Y chromosomes of more than 1000 males originating from the West-European regions of Flanders (Belgium), North-Brabant and Limburg (the Netherlands) at the highest resolution of the current Y-SNP tree together with 38 commonly used Y-STRs. We observed high resemblance of Y-STR haplotypes between males belonging to different subhaplogroups of haplogroup R-M269. Several subhaplogroups within R-M269 could not be distinguished from each other based on differences in Y-STR haplotype variation. The most likely hypothesis to explain this similarity of Y-STR haplotypes within the population of R-M269 members is a recent radiation where various subhaplogroups originated within a relatively short time period. We conclude that high-resolution Y-SNP typing rather than Y-STR typing might be more useful to study population genetic patterns in (Western) Europe."

      Comment


      • #4
        Don't dismiss the results..

        Hello,
        My opinion is do not dismiss the mismatch of 4 markers at 37 as being no possible way of relationship...
        My "cousin" recently agreed to test with me.. We share the same last name and paper trail back to sharing a common ancestor at our 4th Great Grandfather... We both tested at 37 markers and we are a genetic distance of "4". Every marker we vary on are all the "Fast Movers" and in these we are off by only 1 count on each.. If you all tested at a higher amount of markers such as 67; then that would either bring them in as closer relatives, or possibility push them further away??..But in your case and for what you are trying to do in finding and unknown paternal surname.. then that seems like your only safe bet.. That way you are not on constant wild goose chases...I am new to this and certainly no expert.. But I am trying to learn as much as possible..
        Good Luck!!

        Comment


        • #5
          I also agree that one in this position(very few matches and unknown surname) should not dismiss a mismatch of 4 at 37 marker level, or possibly 5, which will not be shown on FTDNA match page since a mismatch of 4 is the cutoff for the 37 marker level

          GD allowances for each level are based on the average STR mutation rate. One can have a higher then average mutation rate or lower then average.

          One has to look at the whole picture to determine if one may happen to fall into the higher then average mutation rate as they will lose out on the matches page.

          BristolClark
          One of the things I would recommend is testing other male lines of your 3x Great Grandfather if possible. This will help determine if your direct line has a higher then average mutation rate.

          ie)Your paternal Uncles, Your Father's Paternal Uncles lines, ect.

          I would also recommend joining the Surname Group these matches surname belongs to, as well as your Haplogroup project and ask your admins advice.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BristolClark View Post

            My 3xgreat-Grandfather was born out of wedlock and took his mothers name of Clark. A few months back I took a Y37 test and had only one match 'pop up' on the matches screen with, obviously, a different surname than mine. This person is showing a distance of 4 on FTDNA and ySearch.
            All of the surnames of these men is Fox. One of the men on ySearch has family from the very same area of Bristol as myself. The rest seem to be of long US resident lineage. Would it be acceptable for me to assume that my 4xgreat-Grandfathers surname was Fox? Or have I completely misinterpreted the results and it is in fact just a coincidence?

            To use this sort of test data successfully, you need to first have a good paper trail, in as much as that is possible. Thats problematic in cases of adoption or unmarried parents, who may not leave a paper trail for you. I think you are on absolutely the right track in assessing the locality of the family you suspect may relate to you, and I had great success in one particular case checking census records for families that lived in immediate proximity to a family in my ancestry. Its one thing to live IN Bristol at the same time, its another to live in a neighboring residence and also have such close STR marker matches paternally.

            I think 4 at 37 markers in significant, but you need to take into account the AMH issue, and if you have a L21 ancestry with very AMH STR's, its more open to random matching than a less common marker set
            Last edited by Aperipatetic1; 6 August 2014, 05:05 PM.

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            • #7
              I think it's significant, your matches, but likely Fox is related in the distant past, for us at least, 500 - 1000 years, say since surnames began. I think you should look for another surname that occurs in the Bristol area. You are a likely cousin of the Foxes when they took their last name. The reason Fox keeps showing up is because it's a very common last name.

              I have 37 and 67 matches with 0, 1, and 2 genetic distances with 3 different families so far within the last 225 years but they have different last names than I. We figured out in our cases though it was birth out of wedlock, likely teenagers, which shouldn't surprise anyone.

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