Melungeons, Black Dutch and Black Irish

[Jambalaia32]

Mixed maybe ,but not Melungeon

Person's of mixed ancestry may find this useful.

http://www.melungeon.org/index.cgi?BISKIT=1595569157

http://www.murrah.com/gen/redbones.htm

http://www.melungeon.org/index.cgi?cat=10092&CONTEXT=cat&BISKIT=3853132492

I don't have Blackhair for no reason, baby!

Black Wolf, Black Dutch Tsa la gyi proud!

Depends on what you're mixed with.Everyone isn't Melungeon-I heard they only live in Tennessee,and are mixed with a certain Indian tribe,and any societal rejects like,whomever was rejected back in those days,but it weren't me,I'm sure. When you say Black Dutch,and Black Irish and the like ,do you mean African Negro,or some other concoction or breed? The real Black Irish in Ireland aren't Black Negros,they are Irish who look like other Irish except their hair is brunette(caucasian texture,though,not foreign),instead of red,or blonde hairs.Melungeons must be creoles,which are 1/3 each of African,Caucasian,and Native American,but that's rather rare,in my opinion,as none of them would sit together long enough to breed into Creoles.

[Jambalaia32]

I agree that if what you are saying that genetics alone should not classify a people. On the other hand, it is those differences from the original gene pool and the different cultures that those gene pools brought with them whether Native American, African, French, Spanish, English, Scotch, Irish, Italian that become a part of the overall culture.

Appalachia, Louisiana and other parts of the South all have there unique cultures and peoples that are a direct reflection of the society, politics, economy and yes the genetic contributions of various populations of the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries.

Most of the white populations also show a fairly high level of East Asian. While this is very possible, the more likely shource I believe for this level of EA is NA. It has been suggested that 3 in 6 of the Early Americans from England intermarried with various NA tribes.

I don't really care what I am,but I want to have an idea of what illnesses I'd be susceptible to genetically,and where I came from generally,so I'll know what I'm the caretaker of.I'm sort of a loner,I probably wouldn't marry someone,if I could aquire money to care for myself,and I'm not trying to build a big kingdom out of myself-but to be left alone one needs money,and land,which my people never seem to be granted by the big gorillas in charge,and the men that would be responsible for my group are nowhere to be found-and I certainly don't want to be taken hostage by all the other tribes in the land,forced to do their will.I guess there is no easy answer.It's a big vicious cycle,and I feel I'm a member of an idiot race..too helpless to help themselves and too fat to die.Like a dodo bird,which is now extinct.All the other tribes try to threaten me to marry,since I'm a female,but not to someone benefiting me,other than being an envious meal ticket.I think I could have more autonomy in a place like Ireland-if I visit and like it,I might stay there.Of course if the men there are goons and the women are jealous then I wouldn't be too comfortable there either.I feel like Lot in the Bible;there was no city he could go to,and he had to have sex with his own kids,but at least he was well beloved by God.

[Jambalaia32]

OK. One final thought for now. There are numerous old stories that say, in effect, "we have always been here". Some of the 10-12,000 year old archaelogical sites in the southeast might give this story some credence. Who can say for absolute positive?
Thanks,
Bob

Bob's Native American/ Scottish

[Jambalaia32]

Hi vh, I am interested in the autosomal test that you did and what web site you took it on. Having tested my mtdna and not having any male relatives I know of, its hard to get a very complete picture. I tested k, but I am dark skinned and with dark eyes. Didn't look much like my adopted family. M

Is you adopted family the same strain of K? If not they wouldn't look like you anyway. All K's will be mixe-race orphans unless they hook up with one another and keeping breeding K's.

[Jambalaia32]

Does hair tell all?

Person's of mixed ancestry may find this useful.

http://www.melungeon.org/index.cgi?BISKIT=1595569157

http://www.murrah.com/gen/redbones.htm

http://www.melungeon.org/index.cgi?cat=10092&CONTEXT=cat&BISKIT=3853132492

I don't have Blackhair for no reason, baby!

Black Wolf, Black Dutch Tsa la gyi proud!

Lots of tribes have Black/Brunette hair,but they aren't all from the same country,some are Chinese,some Indian,some Latin,some from central Europe,some African,some Arab-and I'm pretty sure they don't get their hair from the same place.Where did Adolph Hitler get his black hair from? Indians? Maybe;he claimed to be an Aryan,which is a tribe of Indians in North India.(pardon my mentioning Hitler again,he's actually,so,cliche).

John Raciti's - Belgae DNA Modal through my Nordic-Celtic DNA project (982 members).

John Raciti's - Belgae DNA Modal through my Nordic-Celtic DNA project (982 members).

http://www.ysearch.org/lastname_view.asp?uid=&letter=&lastname=Belgae&viewuid=AX6GA&p=0

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Nordic-Celtic

OK. One final thought for now. There are numerous old stories that say, in effect, "we have always been here". Some of the 10-12,000 year old archaelogical sites in the southeast might give this story some credence. Who can say for absolute positive?
Thanks,
Bob

Bob, thank you for your reply. I am really interested in the language and dna testing being done and the new insights coming up. It seems like science is coming to the same conclusions that the native people were always putting forward in their histories. The Hopi people also say they came from the south and went north and then back south again. Its all really interesting. Thank you for your info, marian

[Bob Swinea]

OK. One final thought for now. There are numerous old stories that say, in effect, "we have always been here". Some of the 10-12,000 year old archaelogical sites in the southeast might give this story some credence. Who can say for absolute positive?
Thanks,
Bob

[Bob Swinea]

Hi all, was wondering if it is possible that people with k haplo came to be with the cherokee blood lines from the arctic through Greenland etc long before the 1400s. Having studied arctic peoples it seems they were very nomadic and had great survival skills. Marian

Hello Marian,
Since we deal in a realm with no early written history, anything could be with in the realm of possibility. Some of our oldest oral histories have interesting things to say. One says that we Cherokees are "nephews" to the Iriquois Tribes and that after a big [disagreement]battle we were forced to move south into new lands. Indeed, our languages seem to share a common origin. Another, yet still older story speaks of our People coming from a very long journey from the south where we travelled on boats for a long time before arriving in a new land. Another interesting facet is our traditional basket weaving style is only found along the Orinoco River tribes in South America.
When DeSoto wandered around the southeastern US in 1540 he described the Chalakee [people of a different speech] as being very poor and living in caves in the mountains. [I wonder if we had just arrived?] By 1620 British journals describe we Cherokee as wide spread and prosperous. Those 80 odd years must have been incredible.
With all this being said, I believe [today, hahaha] that the K hapgroup came from early European females who contributed to our blood lines. Consider the infamous British "Lost Colony". Where did they all go? I tend to believe local Tribes assimilated them. Many are the early tales of "blue eyed Indians". Many are the tales of women/children being carried away by "savages" in the 1600/1700's. Just my thoughts.
Peace,
Bob

Hi all, was wondering if it is possible that people with k haplo came to be with the cherokee blood lines from the arctic through Greenland etc long before the 1400s. Having studied arctic peoples it seems they were very nomadic and had great survival skills. Marian

[Bob Swinea]

I knew some too when I lived in Pryor Creek, Claremore, Vinita too.
Bob

[BlackWolf]

FYI- The figure I quoted in my post came directly from our Tribal Historian. He would know. The people you see in Tahlequah, not all are exclusively full blood Cherokee, but an amalgum of different Native Peoples. The 2000 Census showed that the Cherokee and our Cherokee descendants now have more people than any other Tribe. Sure surprised the Dine' If I remember correctly the number was upwards from 700,000. 7% of that number certainly would fill Tahlequah and Park Hill too a few times over. I will agree that the largest concentration of "full-bloods" are in the Rez areas. This is true of all Tribes of which I am aware.

The larger question, according to one of my Elder teachers, is "where do we Indian Americans fit in to the dominant culture"? Can we continue to be blatently "racist" to others of our own Blood; dividing arbitrarily between BigBloods and LittleBloods? Our own old Chreokee Way says that only "one drop" of Cherokee blood makes one a full member of AniYunwia. Blood quantum and all its varying arguments is an invention of the dominant culture designed ultimately to eliminate Indian People. It is my opinion that for Indian Americans to argue and to divide ourselves over blood quantum issues is like re-arranging the deck furniture on the Titanic - a useless exercise in my opinion. We have so many third-world conditions on our Rez ... our People are in need. Who has time to argue over blood quantum issues? Does that argument make a better world for the little ones growing up on the Rez? Does that argument make an inner-city Indian ghetto better?

I am doing what I can to care for our Indian Elders and to make this world better for our little ones. I hope every other Indian out there is doing the same.
These are my opinions. I mean no disrespect.
Peace,
Bob [tsoiugidali- AniYunwia]

I have been to Tahlequah, Poteau, Stillwell and Tahlahina Oklahoma. Several full bloods in these areas throughout the Kiamichi and Quachita Mountains all the way down to Antlers.

PS I agree

PS I definetly agree that we need to function in the present and do what we can for people no matter what amount of blood is what. Thanks all for that input, m

interested in autosomal test

http://www.continuitypress.com/pitfals.html

http://www.geocities.com/ourmelungeons/front.html

Here are the BEST Melungeon websites

vh

Hi vh, I am interested in the autosomal test that you did and what web site you took it on. Having tested my mtdna and not having any male relatives I know of, its hard to get a very complete picture. I tested k, but I am dark skinned and with dark eyes. Didn't look much like my adopted family. M

[haplogroupc]

Thanks Bob. I'm definitely going to do that.