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  • I am totally lost

    Ok, so I've been over here reading and trying to learn, but I am totally lost.

    I have no YDNA. I have no brothers. However, I have a cousin who is a direct male descendant and I have his results. I don't have a kit number. He has not entered a gedcom and doesn't want to "get involved." Me? I was just delighted to get some YDNA results.

    Now, I have his reults But I've no idea what any of it means. We are a family that headed into Canada circa 1786. That is the first trace of the family in the records, and the guy carries a chain for a surveyor (the payment is the proof). Nothing is over 2% except for a few MKDOs: One MKDO is Canada, which isn't particularly helpful; second MKDO is from Puerto Rico and the third MKDO is from the Azors. The last name is Haney. We have no tradition of being Spanish. Dutch, perhaps, but Spanish?

    I really need some help understanding these results. There are Rs and some numbers... R1 and some numbers... and down the line. The numbers on the first line (R) are [M207][M306][p224][p227][p229][p232][p280][p285]

    What does this mean? I've got numbers on all of the lines from the R1s on down.... Any insight or resources would be greatly appreciated.

  • #2
    If he "doesn't want to get involved," suggest to him that he give you the kit number and password to the account.

    The log into the account and join the appropriate haplogroup project.

    How many Y-DNA markers (Y-STRs) does he have? Can you post them here?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by BarbaraHaney View Post
      Ok, so I've been over here reading and trying to learn, but I am totally lost.

      I have no YDNA. I have no brothers. However, I have a cousin who is a direct male descendant and I have his results. I don't have a kit number. He has not entered a gedcom and doesn't want to "get involved." Me? I was just delighted to get some YDNA results.

      Now, I have his reults But I've no idea what any of it means. We are a family that headed into Canada circa 1786. That is the first trace of the family in the records, and the guy carries a chain for a surveyor (the payment is the proof). Nothing is over 2% except for a few MKDOs: One MKDO is Canada, which isn't particularly helpful; second MKDO is from Puerto Rico and the third MKDO is from the Azors. The last name is Haney. We have no tradition of being Spanish. Dutch, perhaps, but Spanish?

      I really need some help understanding these results. There are Rs and some numbers... R1 and some numbers... and down the line. The numbers on the first line (R) are [M207][M306][p224][p227][p229][p232][p280][p285]

      What does this mean? I've got numbers on all of the lines from the R1s on down.... Any insight or resources would be greatly appreciated.
      lgmayka is right. You should get the kit number and password from your cousin.

      The matches can be from a common ancestor that existed several thousands years ago. Having a match with a person with Spanish ancestry means the common ancestor could be from from a time that there was mixing between the two groups of people. That means it could be as far back as when the Proto-Indo-European language was spoken or beginning to break into it's different branches. You need to upgrade your cousin at least to a 37 marker test and maybe even a 67 marker test.

      [M207][M306][p224][p227][p229][p232][p280][p285] are SNP markers from the R haplogroup. SNP markers are mutations that are different than STR markers. The mutations are given labels with letters and numbers. The haplogroups have trees just like a genealogical tree and once a person has an SNP mutation then all of the descendants have that same mutation. Once one of his descendants has another mutation then all of his descendants have that first mutation and the newer mutation. A new mutation happens on average about every 3 generations. The SNP tree for the R haplogroup with all of it's downstream SNP mutations can be seen at http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html

      You should have your cousin tested for SNP markers in order to determine what his is.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by BarbaraHaney View Post
        I have no YDNA. I have no brothers. However, I have a cousin who is a direct male descendant and I have his results. I don't have a kit number. He has not entered a gedcom and doesn't want to "get involved." Me? I was just delighted to get some YDNA results. Now, I have his reults But I've no idea what any of it means.
        He's already "involved" if he gave you his sample. How do you have his results if you don't have a kit #? Do you mean that you don't have your own kit #, or you don't have his kit #? Assuming he's a first or second cousin, do you need his gedcom? Do you know at least who his parents and grandparents are/were?

        Originally posted by BarbaraHaney View Post
        Nothing is over 2% except for a few MKDOs: One MKDO is Canada, which isn't particularly helpful; second MKDO is from Puerto Rico and the third MKDO is from the Azors. The last name is Haney. We have no tradition of being Spanish. Dutch, perhaps, but Spanish?
        Exactly which test(s) did he order? Only y STR markers, or did he order any SNP tests? How many markers has he tested? 12? 25? 37? 67? 111? If he hasn't ordered SNP tests, what is his yDNA designation on his homepage? R-M269? Something else? By "2%", do you mean genetic distance? Do you mean that he has matches closer than a genetic distance of 2? A genetic distance of 2 for 12 markers likely means that the connections go back at least several hundred years, if not thousands. But a genetic distance of 2 for 67 markers is quite close.

        Originally posted by BarbaraHaney View Post
        There are Rs and some numbers... R1 and some numbers... and down the line. The numbers on the first line (R) are [M207][M306][p224][p227][p229][p232][p280][p285]
        All those numbers on the first line are SNPs that are "equal" to each other in giving you the first designation of what his haplogroup is. Are they colored brown, green, or another color? Scroll down the tree to see where the last brown or green number letter and number combination is. What is it? I'm guessing that it's R-M269. Has he joined any projects? To join projects, click on the "Projects" tab from his homepage and then choose "join", and you will see a list of suggested projects based on his haplogroup. He should join the appropriate yDNA R haplogroup projects so the administrators can give you advice on which SNPs to test, if you want to.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by vinnie View Post
          Has he joined any projects? To join projects, click on the "Projects" tab from his homepage and then choose "join", and you will see a list of suggested projects based on his haplogroup. He should join the appropriate yDNA R haplogroup projects so the administrators can give you advice on which SNPs to test, if you want to.
          Since the original poster is having a lot of trouble even describing what she's seeing in her cousin's account, the best advice is to join the appropriate project, as suggested by Vinnie. Then she can give us her cousin's kit number and a link to whatever project he's joined, so we can look at his results. Then we can give her analysis and advice based on his actual results.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you and reply

            Sorry, I live in Alaska

            No, he didn't send a kit number. These were printed out and sent to me. That is how I have it, no reply since.

            R* and R1* are predicted results. They are in a teal color. Yes, he does have a two step test as well. The numbers in the subsequent lines are in black ink. I googled the first one, Haploid group m207 is Algonquin? Nothing certain comes up on M306. The p series is almost impossible to google because it interprets the p as page number. Ugh.


            Is't there some kind of article where the R, R1, R1a1 ect business is all explained, what what one does with the information?

            This is from the first step test after what I posted previously

            R1a SRY10831.2 (in black print, not teal) subcategories in
            R1a1 [M17][M198](in black print)
            R1a1a [m56](in black print)
            R1a1b [m157](in black print)
            R1a1c [m204][m64.2][m87](in black print)
            R1a1d [P98](in black print)
            R1a1e [Pk5](in black print)

            R1b is in Teal: [m343]
            R1b* is in Teal[P25]
            R1b1a in black ink [M18]
            R1b1b in teal [P297]
            R1b1b2 in teal [M269]appears to be in great numbers in Europe. Well, now I am getting somewhere....[Teal arrow next to this line to indicated it is predicted. I was beginning to wonder...]
            Teal boundary line ends.

            All the rest of the numbers appear to be from undefined groups. R-L23* (R1b1a2a*) undefined. The subclad in the area P310 and the like is still undefined. L49 appears to have little information available. Great... just like the progenitor.

            R1b1b2a [P310] [P311]
            R1b1b2a1a is U106 with U198, P107, L1, L48
            R1b1b2a1b is P312 with a sub clad of M65

            It seems that the U106 has a group of people? Nice chart at
            https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ion=ycolorized but there appears to be DYS numbers across the top that make no sense in terms of anything I have, nor do I see any familiar names. No Haney surnames are entered.

            I also noted a P312 group, but it appears the M65 subclad is not part of their project.

            So, I suppose this was a whole lot of work for a whole lot of nothing. From what I see, I am descended from an Algonquin Kurdish dude from an undefined Northern European subclad with an MKDO in Canada.

            Where am I stuck in my research? Canada 1788.
            Frustration has set in....

            Comment


            • #7
              Here is the Haney Project. If your cousin has not joined, perhaps that can help:

              https://my.familytreedna.com/group-j...px?group=Haney

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks but...

                Would love to, but the link you sent requires a kit number.

                That is part of the problem I have. Too bad, I have the Gedcom for the cousin too... I have a fairly extensive Gedcom on the family ... I have had a "mini" tree on FTM for years, and have a file on ancestry and on family search. In fact, the documentation on the family is pretty good until 1788. Then.. nothing, like the guy fell out of the sky. No muster roll, a sister and her husband, a brother who wanders off, and a pregnant wife.

                There are several active family researchers from all six sons, and researchers from the sister of the guy too. Many lines have "daughtered out." This is one of the few YDNA lines that can be full documented. Bonus for me is that we share great grandfathers and I can document my line back as well as he can.

                I have two more hopes among cousins, but if this is how it is for a woman, then I see no point in buying their spit.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BarbaraHaney View Post
                  I have two more hopes among cousins, but if this is how it is for a woman, then I see no point in buying their spit.
                  Don't give up. If either one of these other guys agrees to test, buy the kit yourself and get the kit # before giving it to him. Let him know you're doing it this way so that you and he can be assured of the best analysis possible through joining a project. I'd buy the highest resolution kit you can afford - you may want to want for the next sale (the holidays?)and give it to him as a present. If possible, bring it in person, get the sample, and mail it yourself. Since you've got several genealogists in the family, perhaps they can put in a good word for you with him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Why?

                    If I don't understand what I have, why would I buy more of what I don't understand.

                    I have a gedcom and I have DNA. How do I put this together in a meaningful way?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BarbaraHaney View Post
                      If I don't understand what I have, why would I buy more of what I don't understand.

                      I have a gedcom and I have DNA. How do I put this together in a meaningful way?
                      Before you do anything, take a deep breath and ask your male relative who already tested to give you his DYS results. It sounds like you never got his results so no wonder you are frustrated. Then see the Haney DNA Project y-results and compare to see if there are any matches.

                      http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/haney/results

                      DYS number stands for DNA Y Segment number. He must give you his numbers for you to understand his results. For example, if your family matches Kit 259999 for an R-L23 then he might have results 12-24-14-11-12-14-12-12-12-14-13-30 etc. These are the best results to start with if you are a beginner. Then you can enter your results at www.ysearch.org and see if there are any similar results. This particular Haney appears to match closest to a French person "Reneau" for example.

                      Every beginner should start with DYS results because people intuitively can see when numbers match up and when numbers don't match up. Maybe your cousin does not realize he did not give you his DYS (STR = short tandem repeat number) results. Ask him pleasantly again or give him a call. These will be a sequence of numbers like I have listed above.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BarbaraHaney View Post
                        If I don't understand what I have, why would I buy more of what I don't understand.

                        I have a gedcom and I have DNA. How do I put this together in a meaningful way?
                        Your problem is not having full access to the results. You've already stated that the cousin who tested doesn't want to be involved any more. If he won't join a project, or give you his kit# so you can add him to a project, or give you the DYS results so you can compare them to other records in projects, then you can't make sense of his results, and neither can we. Also, given the variety of subgroups (subclades) within R1b (R-M269), haplotree results will not be of much use unless he does advanced SNP testing.

                        It's up to you if you want to ask him one more time to either join a project and give you his kit#, or at least send you a copy of the DYS results. If he sends you the DYS results, one of the people here who is knowledgeable about R1b may be able to help you.

                        I would buy another test kit only if one of the other cousins agrees to allow you full access to his results.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Getting somewhere.

                          Thank you. That was the first meaningful something yet.

                          Now, when I look at that chart, I see R1b1a2 of M269 for several Haney families in the southern part of the United States that we have "suspected" as connected.

                          Now, my "guy" has M269. However, it is on R1b1b2. Now, when I google R1b1a2 [M269] articles on Irish Type III come up. When I repeat the search with R1b1b2 [M269] similar results emerge.

                          I take it these are different families then?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BarbaraHaney View Post
                            If I don't understand what I have, why would I buy more of what I don't understand.

                            I have a gedcom and I have DNA. How do I put this together in a meaningful way?
                            The fact that you posted here asking for more information tells us that you are interested in learning what you can from us. Maybe you were the one who suggested that your cousin take the test and you may have even paid for it.

                            The problem is that the information you're giving us is second-hand, based on what your cousin is telling you about his results. There are several pages in an FTDNA account showing different aspects of results. Your cousin is giving you information from one page which concerns SNPs, a type of DNA marker that relates to deep ancestry, probably 2,000 or more years ago.

                            Do what Kathy Johnston suggested and tell your cousin to log into his FTDNA account and hover his mouse over "Y-DNA" near the top of the page and then click on "Standard Y-STR Results" in the menu that's revealed. Then he can give you the DYS results, which you can report to us in this thread. Those results tell you something about ancestry in the last few hundred years and are used to find other men who match closely enough to share a common ancestor in that period of time. Or just ask him for the kit number and password and you can go into his account and find the information yourself.

                            If your cousin won't cooperate and you do want to get information from a DNA test to help your genealogy research on this paternal line, do what Vinnie suggested. Get one of the other cousins in this line you mentioned to agree to take the test and make sure that you have the kit number and access to the account, as Vinnie described. Then you can give us the relevant information and we can advise you much better than we can now, based on the vague information you currently have.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Vague

                              http://isaachaney.blogspot.com/2014/06/dna.html

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