European light skin gene really found?

[Hando]

Just saw this article about a gene mutation which happened in one person 10,000 years ago between India and the Middle East which is responsible for the light skin colour of people in Europe, Middle East and south India. How valid do you guys think this claim is?

http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/the-light-skin-of-the-irish-can-be-traced-to-india-and-the-middle-east-239166271-239671671.html#at_pco=smlwn-1.0&at_si=537ff94860d22145&at_ab=per-1&at_pos=0&at_tot=1

[T E Peterman]

Likely true. A recent analysis of Mesolithic Europeans (ca 5,000 BC) showed that they had dark skin (brown/ black), but blue eyes. This population was present before the arrival of Indo European speaking Anatolians.

Since the vast majority of all people have historically had dark skin, I wonder if an adaptive value for light skin can be identified? Particularly when one considers that this mutation didn't occur in the North Circumpolar folks, but rather between the Middle East & India. Could it be associated with lactose digestion in adulthood? That's what some have suggested.

Timothy Peterman

[1798]

Just saw this article about a gene mutation which happened in one person 10,000 years ago between India and the Middle East which is responsible for the light skin colour of people in Europe, Middle East and south India. How valid do you guys think this claim is?

http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/th...pos=0&at_tot=1

Neanderthals had light skin and lived more than 10,000 years ago.

[T E Peterman]

There may have been any number of mutations that affected pigmentation, or hair color, or eye color.

I think the point of this is that this particular mutation affects pigmentation, can be found today from Europe to India, and appears to be only 10,000 years old.

Neanderthal complexions may have been determined by a different set of mutations.

Timothy Peterman

[1798]

There may have been any number of mutations that affected pigmentation, or hair color, or eye color.

I think the point of this is that this particular mutation affects pigmentation, can be found today from Europe to India, and appears to be only 10,000 years old.

Neanderthal complexions may have been determined by a different set of mutations.

Timothy Peterman

How was the age of this SNP determined? Was it because of one La Brana man?

[Hando]

Likely true. A recent analysis of Mesolithic Europeans (ca 5,000 BC) showed that they had dark skin (brown/ black), but blue eyes. This population was present before the arrival of Indo European speaking Anatolians.
Timothy Peterman

If the European Mesolithic people had dark skin, then would this mean that their Cro Mangnon ancestors who created the cave art of Lascaux and other Dordogne cave sites were also dark skinned and had nothing to do with the 10,000 year old man with the light skin gene mutation from the news article?

[1798]

Was this boy dark skinned?

http://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/news/24000-year-old-boy-from-lake-baikal-is-scientific-sensation/

"New DNA findings, if confirmed, have stunning implications for our understanding of both pre-historic Siberians - and native Americans. They would suggest that, contrary to previous understanding, some indigenous populations are - in fact - European or West Asiatic in origin.

The Danish-US research was carried out on the bones of a Siberian boy whose remains were found near the village of Mal'ta close to Lake Baikal in the 1920s in a grave adorned with flint tools, pendants, a bead necklace and a sprinkling of ochre. The remains are held in the world famous Hermitage Museum in St Petersburg and analysis of a bone in one of his arms represents 'the oldest complete genome of a modern human sequenced to date', according to Science magazine.

'His DNA shows close ties to those of today's Native Americans. Yet he apparently descended not from East Asians, but from people who had lived in Europe or western Asia,' said ancient DNA expert Eske Willerslev of the University of Copenhagen. 'The finding suggests that about a third of the ancestry of today's Native Americans can be traced to 'western Eurasia'.'

The research may help explain why 'European ancestry previously detected in modern Native Americans do not come solely from mixing with European colonists, as most scientists had assumed, but have much deeper roots', said the report.

It may also raise a similar question about the 'European look' of some ancient Siberians - for example in the tattooed permafrost princess Ukok found in a burial chamber in the Altai Mountains, whose remains date from around 2,500 years ago."

[1798]

Was this boy dark skinned?

http://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/news/24000-year-old-boy-from-lake-baikal-is-scientific-sensation/

"New DNA findings, if confirmed, have stunning implications for our understanding of both pre-historic Siberians - and native Americans. They would suggest that, contrary to previous understanding, some indigenous populations are - in fact - European or West Asiatic in origin.

The Danish-US research was carried out on the bones of a Siberian boy whose remains were found near the village of Mal'ta close to Lake Baikal in the 1920s in a grave adorned with flint tools, pendants, a bead necklace and a sprinkling of ochre. The remains are held in the world famous Hermitage Museum in St Petersburg and analysis of a bone in one of his arms represents 'the oldest complete genome of a modern human sequenced to date', according to Science magazine.

'His DNA shows close ties to those of today's Native Americans. Yet he apparently descended not from East Asians, but from people who had lived in Europe or western Asia,' said ancient DNA expert Eske Willerslev of the University of Copenhagen. 'The finding suggests that about a third of the ancestry of today's Native Americans can be traced to 'western Eurasia'.'

The research may help explain why 'European ancestry previously detected in modern Native Americans do not come solely from mixing with European colonists, as most scientists had assumed, but have much deeper roots', said the report.

It may also raise a similar question about the 'European look' of some ancient Siberians - for example in the tattooed permafrost princess Ukok found in a burial chamber in the Altai Mountains, whose remains date from around 2,500 years ago."

This boy had freckled skin which could mean he carried the red hair gene.

[Hando]

This boy had freckled skin which could mean he carried the red hair gene.

Having freckled skin and being 24,000 years old and sharing genetic material found in modern Europeans seems to debunk the theory that light skin found in modern Europeans originated from one person in India 10,000 years ago.

[lgmayka]

Malta boy had dark skin

Although the actual scientific article is apparently behind a paywall, this blogger writes:
---
The authors compared the DNA of MA-1 with a set of 124 SNPs identified in 2001 by Cerquira as informative on skin, hair and eye pigmentation color, although they also caution that this method has limited prediction accuracy. Given that, they say that MA-1 had dark hair, skin and eyes, but they were not able to sequence the full set of SNPs.
---

[Hando]

If the European Mesolithic people had dark skin, then would this mean that their Cro Mangnon ancestors who created the cave art of Lascaux and other Dordogne cave sites were also dark skinned and had nothing to do with the 10,000 year old man with the light skin gene mutation from the news article?

[lgmayka]

If the European Mesolithic people had dark skin, then would this mean that their Cro Mangnon ancestors who created the cave art of Lascaux and other Dordogne cave sites were also dark skinned and had nothing to do with the 10,000 year old man with the light skin gene mutation from the news article?

That is indeed what the sparse evidence suggests. We won't know for sure, of course, without a lot more decoding of ancient DNA.

[1798]

If the European Mesolithic people had dark skin, then would this mean that their Cro Mangnon ancestors who created the cave art of Lascaux and other Dordogne cave sites were also dark skinned and had nothing to do with the 10,000 year old man with the light skin gene mutation from the news article?

The Neanderthals that lived in Northern Europe 40,000 years ago had light skin.

[Hando]

The Neanderthals that lived in Northern Europe 40,000 years ago had light skin.

The light skin of Europeans is a much lighter shade than that of light skinned Indians and Middle Easterners, so I have a hard time being convinced that European light skin gene is the same as that of the Indian/Middle Eastern gene of 10,000 years ago. Apart from that, the features of middle Easterners/Indians are different from modern Europeans, so how on earth am I supposed to swallow this theory that modern Europeans descend from an individual from the middle east/India 10,000 years ago. It seems really far fetched to me. Not at all convinced.

[Tourist]

Ready for a surprise?

I am L21+, M222+, S660+, which is as Celtic as anybody could be, complete with milky white skin and green eyes. HOWEVER, following Big Y analysis, it turns out that I also have a far upstream SNP marker, very ancient, which indicates that I also have an African Aborigine marker.

And I suspect that the new Next Generation SNP testing such as Big Y will produce numerous other similar results.