J2 Discussion

[Jason777]

I am also J2f

Hi,

I also received my deep clade results yesterday, as I am indeed J2f too. My direct patrilineal side of the family is Ashkenazi Jewish as far as I could go back. For my one-step mutations, I match with eight J2, four J2f, and one J1. I know that there is a 95% that I share a common ancestor with my one-step mutations within 47 generations. How is it possible that I match with a J1 for one-step mutations if the J haplogoup divided into sub clades more than 2,000 years ago?

[Judy]

Hi,

How is it possible that I match with a J1 for one-step mutations if the J haplogoup divided into sub clades more than 2,000 years ago?

FTDNA reports matches on haplotype without regard to haplogroup. This is confusing because, as I understand it, they are not really matches if they are not in the same haplogroup. For the purpose of finding recent common ancestors, I only consider matches within the same subclade of the same haplogroup.
Judy

[Judy]

Poland, huh? J2f's do get around!
We are a member of the J2 project at FTDNA.
I emailed the admin yesterday with our results, but I haven't heard anything from him.
I've been testing with FTDNA for about 3 years.
I've purchased the YDNA, the mtDNA (I'm hap U5a), the hap SNP for the J2, & the J2 deep SNP. I'm sure I'm forgetting something.
And I've learned alot, but I still have LOTS of questions.
Mainly, I just wait for a good match in our surname project.
Someone with a long pedigree hopefully! LOL!
Cinda

I e-mailed the J2 project admin also, and I just heard back from him. He wants you to confirm that you have been SNP tested or predicted J2 and not J1 and to agree that the results are copyrighted. I e-mailed him back that I agreed to those conditions so I assume I will be admitted to the group. I am assuming it is ok for me to join with my brother's DNA. He has no interest in genealogy.

I discovered genealogy-related DNA testing late in 2005. I started a small surname project for my maternal grandfather's Y-DNA line and also had my mtDNA tested (I'm HV*), my brother's (J2f) and my husband's (E3b). My brother's wife is interested in her family history, so I had her mtDNA tested (H2b) and I joined her up to the British Isles dual geographic project and the H project.

The reason I started the surname project and convinced a few male cousins to test, and had my brother's and my husband's Y-DNA tested is the same as yours: We are all hoping to find matches with a long pedigree too In the meantime, I have found a close mtDNA match to my HV* signature who knows much more than I do about our maternal line and I have learned a lot from him so far, and expect to learn a lot more. Far more than I could have figured out on my own.
Judy

[Cinda]

Hi Judy,
You are so lucky to have an high resolution match to your mtDNA.
I've had mine in the database for over a year & no matches at all.
I'm U5a.
My husband has been trying to convince one of his sisters to pay for the test, but they haven't so far. He paid for all the YDNA testing (he's R1b1),& has LOTS of great matches, so he figures his siblings can pay for the mtDNA testing. If they don't soon, we'll have to. My husband & I have spent alot of money with FTDNA. And we'll probally spend alot more. I think we are addicted to DNA testing!
We are gonna do a marker upgrade for both of us in a few months.
With FTDNA offering the huge marker upgrade, it'll be hard for us to resist.
37 markers are so yesterday!
Anyway, good luck& happy hunting!
Cinda

[Judy]

Hi Judy,
You are so lucky to have an high resolution match to your mtDNA.
I've had mine in the database for over a year & no matches at all.
I'm U5a.
My husband has been trying to convince one of his sisters to pay for the test, but they haven't so far. He paid for all the YDNA testing (he's R1b1),& has LOTS of great matches, so he figures his siblings can pay for the mtDNA testing. If they don't soon, we'll have to. My husband & I have spent alot of money with FTDNA. And we'll probally spend alot more. I think we are addicted to DNA testing!
We are gonna do a marker upgrade for both of us in a few months.
With FTDNA offering the huge marker upgrade, it'll be hard for us to resist.
37 markers are so yesterday!
Anyway, good luck& happy hunting!
Cinda

LOL! My husband had two one-step matches on his 37 marker test, and both of them upgraded to 67 markers, so we did too! I know I was lucky to bag a few HV* high resolution matches, particularly that one of them is obsessively studying everything about our haplogroup signature. I am not an exact match with them; I am one step away on one of the fast mutating markers on HVR-2, and the fellow who heads the group says that our MRCA lived within the last 300 years. Our maternal great-grandmothers all come from the same region in eastern Europe. It took me a while to realize they are serious matches and the exact high resolution matches I had on my FTDNA personal page which all came from a different haplogroup (H) were not matches at all, but just chance convergences to the same haplotype that I have. I have finally found where I come from

I have paid for my sister-in-law's DNA because she cannot afford to. We are going to her niece's wedding in July (her sister's daughter) and I plan to give the sisters and their daughters haplogroup H pins, and information on their deep ancestry. My sister-in-law has 3 exact matches based on haplogroup subclade and HVR-1. I ordered an upgrade to HVR-2 for her and if there are any hi-res matches in her subclade, I'll put her in touch with them. We are also trying to find any relatives of my paternal grandfather and my husband's paternal grandfather (who was an orphan). This is so exciting!

I am definitely addicted to DNA testing!
Judy

[dentate]

Hi to everyone in J2f land:

I am J2f (now properly called J2a1b) with 41 exact 12/12 matches. While it is true that one can match STR types with J* or J1 individuals, that seems to be a rare event for my STR type. I have many matches at higher levels too.

J in general has a lot of STR haplotype overlap between the different haplogroups, but with larger numbers of markers, divergence is apparent and you can begin to see "modal" types for most of the haplogroups. That's the value of the 67 marker test.

Everyone with meaningful 25 marker or 37 marker matches to me who has been tested is J2f, and either Jewish, or unaware of his origins. There are some probably Sephardic matches as well. Like Judy, we have the 6 marker CMH but not the 12. About half of my matches claim Cohanim status on the haplogroup page, but my family does not. The story of the Cohanim is far from complete. There appear to have been at least two major groups claiming this status, one in J1 and one in J2. May go back to rival groups during the Second Temple period in ancient Israel.

I am the first individual known to carry an additional mutation called S51, discovered by EthnoAncestry. Five other people who match me closely at the 37 marker level are currently being tested for this marker. If it is found in others besides myself and my sons, it may perhaps help to differentiate Jewish J2f from the J2f also found in Greece, Italy, and Georgia/Anatolia. J2f certainly is very ancient and predates the appearance of ancient Israelites; it seems to be an Anatolian marker, per Cinnioglu's paper.

[Cinda]

Hi Dentate,
I sure wish I was in you genetic shoes.
I'm not getting any matches at all!
Costas (mgr of the J2 project) says my paternal haplotype is VERY unusual.
It figures! My husband, who is R1b1, (who just received notice of another match), swears i'm a space alien.
I can't seem to track down any recent ancestors either.
Keep us all posted as to what you find out.
BTW, what is your recent ancestry? I believe you have posted it as Italian. Am I right? Mine, i'm not sure. But I believe it to be Germany or the UK.
Cindy

[dentate]

Hi Cinda,

I know of other J2s who, like you, also have unusual STR patterns and few matches. It is an ancient group and has been spread from the Middle East/Anatolia area many times in many directions, so it is not surprising to find some "outliers."

I am Ashkenazi Jewish as are 90% of my matches, with an additional few who do not know their background and one who is Italian. It is also not surprising to me that I would have 41 matches. The Ashkenazi population went through a "bottleneck" and you would therefore expect the haplotype diversity to be low--meaning lots of people sharing a few ancestors. It's even more extreme on the mtDNA side where 40% of the mtDNA in the Ashkenazi gene pool comes from 4 women (I have one of those mtDNAs too).

My poor wife has zero matches to her mtDNA and no living male relatives...talk about isolated....

[Cinda]

Hi Dentate,
At least you know your recent ancestry.
I have no idea.
And I'm in the same shape as your wife as far as my mtDNA is concerned.
I have no matches either. I'm U5a, so you'd think I'd have plenty of matches.
I have become more & more frustrated. No luck on either side.
But, I will continue to wait.
Here's a sad/funny story: I have my husband's contact email coming to my inbox so I can keep up with all of this info for him. And he's R1b1, so he gets a match quite often. I just see the familiar email & my heart jumps into my throat! I always think it just might be for me. But, it never is.
Maybe someday.
Cindy

[efgen]

Maternal grandfather is J2

Just received my maternal grandfather's GP results back -- he's J2, as determined by SNP testing. I've transferred his results to FTDNA and will be upgrading to at least 37 markers.

His paternal line was from present-day Myshkovichi, Ukraine (near Tarnopol), in the former Galicia region.

Ysearch ID: CG79B

[Verdoorn]

J2 Haplogroup

I was equally surprised when the J2 haplogroup was assigned to my nephew who is supposedly connected directly to George Soule of the Mayflower. His surname is Soule and son of my brother. We have traced our genealogy for 8 generations to William Soule who was a Loyalist and fought for the British during the Revolutionary War. They escaped to Alburg, Vermont and have been there for the pass 200 years. I was born there. We have never found documented records of the birth of William Soule, but I have seen his tombstone and it gives his death date and age. This is in Alburg, Vt. Now the rest of the Soule markers show the I haplogroup. They all go back to the British Isles. So now I am doing a sub-clade test, and am interested to learn the results. Someone said there was a paternity event in my line, but I don't have a clue where it would be. If anyone has any idea what I can do to find out this mystifying event, please let me know.
Thanks.
Joan

[josh w.]

The explanation need not be a "paternity event". Although the frequency of J2 is not high in Britain, there are a number of J2s there. There are a variety of routes from the Mediterranian which go back at least 2000 years, e.g. the Roman invasion. Since your family history only goes back a few hundred years, there are many possible events which could have led to migration to England over that period. Did the results yield any matches and from what locations?

[efgen]

Josh - I think you missed where Joan said other Soules tested as hg I So she's wondering why her nephew didn't match.

Joan - The "non-paternity event" or NPE could be anything from an adoption, to a son taking his mother's maiden name, to an indiscretion. Were any of the other Soules tested also descended from William Soule? If so, and they were hg I, then it definitely sounds like there's an NPE in your nephew's line to William. If no other descendants of William Soule have been tested, then definitely try to find a distant branch to test and see who they match. If they are also J2, then William Soule wasn't related to the other Soules (or the NPE was prior to him). But if they are hg I, then you have an NPE somewhere in your nephew's direct line back to William Soule.

If the NPE is in the line back to William Soule, I would systematically start testing other descendant lines to find out where the J2 comes in. Try to get a 3rd, 4th and 5th cousin to test and see what their results are. By testing different lines, you should eventually be able to pinpoint the NPE.

Good luck!

[josh w.]

Efgen, at least one of us can read. Again, do the J2 matches offer any clue. For example, are any of them from England or Vermont.

[chekwriter]

Some J 2's now I Haplo Grouping

Have all of you checked your DNA report lately? I noticed that they changed my family MILLS group to I(eye) on the FTDNA web site.

Maybe the explanation of what J or I means, Is the same. In that, it is a more common type. Maybe there are more of us today? We had more children after the various times of plenty. DO NOT KNOW.

My family does not match to any of the other groups under MILLS. So far, that is. I recently upgraded to 37 markers. More of curiousity than anything else.

One thing that is interesting, so far, as my research indicates. None of the family have married into the same family lines. Meaning, 1st cousins marrying.

That is, my direct MILLS line that I have found.

That again may account for some differences in my DNA test of my brother's DNA that he gave me to get tested. Do not know if that could be a variable to all the others?

I just wanted to see if my family MILLS could have been of the one that I kept coming across each time I went to do more research. Proved we did not.

Am very glad that I did do it, in that maybe down the road we may find our common MRA. Very well be farther back than any of us have done research.

I for one, am satisfied happy that I undertook the research and have learned a tremendous amount of history as our family has contributed.

And along the way, have run across same surname, but different progenitor, and have helped them out as well.