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  • Jim Denning
    replied
    now all that said i might be proud to be boston irish or some might be proud to be pen. dutch or virginian. thats great
    personaly i am thrilled my e3b has some connections to being jewish but does that mean i am not irish no way i can handle both but know i know i an an etheopian jew from longford ireland lol(look at the picture fred flintstone] best money i have spent

    what would of happened in europe if we had this testing how hard would it be to sell people and killing jews if half their matches are askanazi.
    this breaks down barriers

    maybe we can stop canbodias and armenias from happening but look at suddan [ my people]. i dont know

    but i always believe that knowledge is power

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Denning
    replied
    Originally posted by BlackWolf
    I Don't know Jim, I don't want to reach at straws here and do not want to sound like a elitist. I have seen many make arguements for THERE Haplo and against or brush off a haplo like R1b because it does not fit within there own unique realm.

    I guess it is that human need for attention or to feel "special". That aside, when you hear things like R1a pretty much GAVE the R1b Celts there Indo-E language I just have to laugh out loud.

    It appears many want to make a connection to the Middle East and/or Central Asia. Mostly, because a lot of Europeans have a lot of oral history and also because of the religious connections.

    They also want to be special, a dangerous concept that has lead to severe Hard left wing/right wind idealology that have killed millions throughout history. The Germans, Jews, English, Romans, Japanese etc. etc. and now some would say Americans (although I strongly disagree)

    Now it's Haplos, how silly. Even in some of the descriptions like (R1b was responsible for the beautiful cave art seen in France) Give me a break. As if you are giving a comment while at the same time saying that people of Western European origin are still near the cave man level LOL! Why not say that R1b were the among the first peoples to conquer the known civillized world! Oh, can't give that description.

    I guess that's why I am defending R1b. History shows different than what is being said and the dna shows different. If it did not, then I would just shut my mouth.

    I believe R1b has been in Asia Minor and Syria for at least 4000 years (Hittite).

    The Celts were at one time in Asia Minor, that is a fact.

    How do people think that all those Central Asian Chinese Muslims have so much R1b! Did they migrate all the way over there during the last Ice Ages as suggested for R1b in Europe! LOL!

    And of course, no ONE PEOPLE ARE OR WERE ONE HAPLOGROUP. People of Europe (including the Jews) are a mix of several different Haplogroups. I just beleive most of the came to Europe after the ice ages.
    The Celts were at one time in Asia Minor, that is a fact. YES AS WERE EVERYONE ELSE

    here is what i am saying Europeans reguardless of haplotype are basicly keltic and slovaks and who knows maybe slovak are hebrew /semetics too

    most of the migrating tribes like e3b have a connection my e3b went thru north africa from down south some made the cresent some came to europe very early and some stayed in palastine

    see here is the problem
    no one invading group is all one haplogroup none. So when those e3bs came to europe they had k's q's and whatever
    we sit here today and say e3bs did this.
    they didnt in solo, maybe haplogroups have some charaterists that allow e3b to flourish and k' and q's to regress but i dont know that

    even in britany [the isles] the most are r1b r1a but there are e3es and ks and others .thats always been true
    the jews may have come from abraham but those black men in the 10 comandments and the tribes they conquered were assimilated so the one abram ydna was part of the whole

    that happened everywhere

    what happened was the isrealites where inbetween eygpt and assyrian power they got tired of being invaded and went north

    thats nothing special

    what would you do if the 5th army armored divison came thru every year lol

    look at israel and imagine the wars, where they happened. its alsace lorraine or poland cept for 3000 years lol the pols and alsace. The palatines left alsace . My irish tired of the stupidity left and came here in 1800 after 1798 and robert emmitt. Does the ydna of boston being strong r1b. it means nothing other then r1b people migrated here


    thats why askenazi is found alot cause the same people who founded them moved west. thats all i am saying and they had tons of haplogroups
    Last edited by Jim Denning; 22 December 2005, 04:06 PM.

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  • BlackWolf
    replied
    I Don't know Jim, I don't want to reach at straws here and do not want to sound like a elitist. I have seen many make arguements for THERE Haplo and against or brush off a haplo like R1b because it does not fit within there own unique realm.

    I guess it is that human need for attention or to feel "special". That aside, when you hear things like R1a pretty much GAVE the R1b Celts there Indo-E language I just have to laugh out loud.

    It appears many want to make a connection to the Middle East and/or Central Asia. Mostly, because a lot of Europeans have a lot of oral history and also because of the religious connections.

    They also want to be special, a dangerous concept that has lead to severe Hard left wing/right wind idealology that have killed millions throughout history. The Germans, Jews, English, Romans, Japanese etc. etc. and now some would say Americans (although I strongly disagree)

    Now it's Haplos, how silly. Even in some of the descriptions like (R1b was responsible for the beautiful cave art seen in France) Give me a break. As if you are giving a comment while at the same time saying that people of Western European origin are still near the cave man level LOL! Why not say that R1b were the among the first peoples to conquer the known civillized world! Oh, can't give that description.

    I guess that's why I am defending R1b. History shows different than what is being said and the dna shows different. If it did not, then I would just shut my mouth.

    I believe R1b has been in Asia Minor and Syria for at least 4000 years (Hittite).

    The Celts were at one time in Asia Minor, that is a fact.

    How do people think that all those Central Asian Chinese Muslims have so much R1b! Did they migrate all the way over there during the last Ice Ages as suggested for R1b in Europe! LOL!

    And of course, no ONE PEOPLE ARE OR WERE ONE HAPLOGROUP. People of Europe (including the Jews) are a mix of several different Haplogroups. I just beleive most of the came to Europe after the ice ages.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Denning
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Denning
    read barry's book
    there is a monolith is spain millenia old untralatable until he did it using the creek indian albphabet. you might find that interesting
    btw harvard where he taught has disowned him as too radical lol

    thats untranslatable

    i dont ask any of you to believe all this I DO!

    But i see my results and all the post why askenazis and i feel supported by it

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Denning
    replied
    Originally posted by BlackWolf
    Yes, but there is not denying the fact that the languages spoken in the West are Indo-European. IMO, the only true isolate people from the Ice ages are the Basque. There language is a true isolate. All others came from the East and probably at a latter date, not during the Ice ages as has been suggested.

    read barry's book
    there is a monolith is spain millenia old untralatable until he did it using the creek indian albphabet. you might find that interesting
    btw harvard where he taught has disowned him as too radical lol

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Denning
    replied
    Originally posted by Hrodberht
    Also, it should be noted that, as I explained in another recent post, my allegedly outrageous and agenda-driven theory relating to the relationship between Y-DNA Hg R1a, Indo-Europeans/Indo-Iranians/Indo-Germanics/Indo-Celtics (whatever one decides to label them!), and the Volga-Ural Kurgan culture is shared with premier archaeo-geneticist Spencer Wells and even plainly stated in the "Atlas of the Human Journey" section on the Genographic Project website. My conclusions and theories and ideas are widely consensually agreed upon in the modern scientific anthropological and genetic world. So it is not like I'm some fringe wacko manipulating data to fit suspected ulterior motivations.
    ...........
    josh w.,

    Thank you for your rationality.
    ...........

    Jim,

    I see no reason to dismiss the general picture arrived at by modern historians and high-calibre geneticists like Cavalli-Sforza, etc., but I am no dogmatist. The question of Cimmerian Israelites is perhaps also related to my own speculatons about Hittite or Luwian Israelites.

    I am familiar with the idea that the lost northern tribes of Israel became the Cimmerians and invaded the West. I am not sure if you are aware of this, but this is the core idea of the modern cult of British Israelism and its various offshoots (Christian Identity, the Aryan Nations, 'Serpent Seedliners', etc). This idea of the northern tribes becoming Cimmerians and Scythians is attractively romantic, but could you refer to any reliable scientific, historical, or anthropological-genetic research supporting your view?

    where do i start.

    well for starters some of the tribes that got lost were the germani and engli.
    do you remember the story of joseph and his coat. and the have you seen the 10 comandments
    .in the movie [i know its a movie] the cloth of moses was striped and multi colored . that was not uncommon. so wht would kjosephs coat of many colors be different. err.. thinking well what if it was a plaid coat.

    moving on the thuatha da danaan is translated tribe of dan.dan left there land in palestine long before the assyraians captured the house of Isreal.they had this strange habit they named everything after their founder dn hebrew didnt have vowel points. and neither did olgham the keltoi alphabet dn is their marking. for more on this i sugest you read the book america bc by barry fell link to amzon below.Interesting in Ireland den was judge and dan in hebrew both meant judge . and the phrophecies of jacob said dan would be a snake by the side of the road to judge the other nations

    I asked which two countries had cities of refuge the answer is israel and ireland.
    the problem dan had with god was his idols.Bael was his god perhaps the other thing he named his territories after was bael tons of irish locations have the prefix .
    The Cimmerians [ only one of the tribal names they were known as]were tremendous worriors with arrow and horse back. this part of the 10 tribe is placed in Scotland. Perhaps the best warrors in europe.

    enough of that line

    about the brothers and the rest of the nuts which what they were and are
    . the brother were crazy but they did grab the obvious. they saw the prophecy that joseph and mannassah would be a commonwealth or nations who would posess the gates of their enemies. only two countries have done this England and America . they have the suez, panama and all the important see channels the capes africa and south america. Then the brothers demanded the quenn give them the crown lol. needless to say queen had them locked up as insane.
    the aryians do believe this only because it works in their favor. until faces with its ramifications by people who know the whole story. then they demand that parts of this simply dont apply. I get tons of emails from them and they never walk away happy.
    what people never bring up when they say keltoi israelism is ayrian . The real ayrian thought started at the start of the 1900s when german rationalism was invadingthe college campus worldwide.Its goal was to erase any teachings which might allow for a pewerful entity to be working in the world today. They would not allow for history to show what historians had beeen teaching for years. Its this that outlaws any mention of subjects as related to reality. the truth being all subject intwine math intertwines with music and dna is woven into history.
    it is german relativisn whcih was the basic of the aryan nazi thought pattern. people like the noble peace prize winrers who worked for I.G. FARBEN. Who ate gormet dinner in the city of Auschwitz. when they ran the camp. they invented the bunna soup which would keep a worker alive for 3 months til they droped dead. Margaret Sanger was one of the german realtist she founded planned parenthood. I suggest you get a copy of the crimes and punishment of i.g.farben by joseph barkin



    13. Amazon.com: America B.C.: Ancient Settlers in the New World: Books
    ... one had lived in the Americas prior to about 1000 BC. After Clovis prevailed, the religion became "Clovis ... of time. With America B.C.- Barry Fell has presented an exciting ...
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg.../-/0812906241?... [Found on Yahoo! Search]

    2
    Amazon.com: The Crime and Punishment of IG Farben: Books
    Amazon.com: The Crime and Punishment of IG Farben: Books by Joseph Borkin.
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg.../-/0029046300?... [Found on Google]

    1. The World Government Conspiracy
    The Crimes and Punishment of IG Farben. [I lifted this digitization, complete with typos, from http://home.earthlink.net/~x288files/IGintro.htm.] ...
    www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/igfintro.html [Found on Google, Yahoo! Search]

    Leave a comment:


  • BlackWolf
    replied
    Originally posted by Hrodberht
    Also, it should be noted that, as I explained in another recent post, my allegedly outrageous and agenda-driven theory relating to the relationship between Y-DNA Hg R1a, Indo-Europeans/Indo-Iranians/Indo-Germanics/Indo-Celtics (whatever one decides to label them!), and the Volga-Ural Kurgan culture is shared with premier archaeo-geneticist Spencer Wells and even plainly stated in the "Atlas of the Human Journey" section on the Genographic Project website. My conclusions and theories and ideas are widely consensually agreed upon in the modern scientific anthropological and genetic world. So it is not like I'm some fringe wacko manipulating data to fit suspected ulterior motivations.
    ...........
    josh w.,

    Thank you for your rationality.
    ...........

    Jim,

    I see no reason to dismiss the general picture arrived at by modern historians and high-calibre geneticists like Cavalli-Sforza, etc., but I am no dogmatist. The question of Cimmerian Israelites is perhaps also related to my own speculatons about Hittite or Luwian Israelites.

    I am familiar with the idea that the lost northern tribes of Israel became the Cimmerians and invaded the West. I am not sure if you are aware of this, but this is the core idea of the modern cult of British Israelism and its various offshoots (Christian Identity, the Aryan Nations, 'Serpent Seedliners', etc). This idea of the northern tribes becoming Cimmerians and Scythians is attractively romantic, but could you refer to any reliable scientific, historical, or anthropological-genetic research supporting your view?
    Yes, but there is not denying the fact that the languages spoken in the West are Indo-European. IMO, the only true isolate people from the Ice ages are the Basque. There language is a true isolate. All others came from the East and probably at a latter date, not during the Ice ages as has been suggested.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hrodberht
    replied
    Also, it should be noted that, as I explained in another recent post, my allegedly outrageous and agenda-driven theory relating to the relationship between Y-DNA Hg R1a, Indo-Europeans/Indo-Iranians/Indo-Germanics/Indo-Celtics (whatever one decides to label them!), and the Volga-Ural Kurgan culture is shared with premier archaeo-geneticist Spencer Wells and even plainly stated in the "Atlas of the Human Journey" section on the Genographic Project website. My conclusions and theories and ideas are widely consensually agreed upon in the modern scientific anthropological and genetic world. So it is not like I'm some fringe wacko manipulating data to fit suspected ulterior motivations.
    ...........
    josh w.,

    Thank you for your rationality.
    ...........

    Jim,

    I see no reason to dismiss the general picture arrived at by modern historians and high-calibre geneticists like Cavalli-Sforza, etc., but I am no dogmatist. The question of Cimmerian Israelites is perhaps also related to my own speculatons about Hittite or Luwian Israelites.

    I am familiar with the idea that the lost northern tribes of Israel became the Cimmerians and invaded the West. I am not sure if you are aware of this, but this is the core idea of the modern cult of British Israelism and its various offshoots (Christian Identity, the Aryan Nations, 'Serpent Seedliners', etc). This idea of the northern tribes becoming Cimmerians and Scythians is attractively romantic, but could you refer to any reliable scientific, historical, or anthropological-genetic research supporting your view?
    Last edited by Hrodberht; 21 December 2005, 12:04 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hrodberht
    replied
    MMadi,

    You are using the guilt-by-assocation fallacy, a common fallacy among the intellectually undisciplined. There is no absolute linear commonality between Count Gobineau's worldview and my own merely because I cited one of his ideas.

    You lack the detachment and breadth of vision of a historian, so your preconditioned opinion doesn't interest me.

    Anyhow, if you wish to force this issue, my initial interest in Gobineau came from the fact that my non-Semitic Sicilian-Norman side possesses indefinite ancestral links to this figure.

    I was intrigued by his fictional work and writings about the Orient before I learned of his anthropological texts.

    Moderns today cannot penetrate into the mind of the European aristocrat of old. Gobineau was not an evil-minded "racist" or "white supremacist" in the constricted, heinous, politically-overcharged sense in which contemporary ideologues use these words. His thinking was far more refined and complex than the modern mass media has taught us to expect of so-called "racists", too refined and complex to be elliptically and propagandistically summarized by a dumbed-down online encyclopedia that allows its content to be determined by pro-pedophilia activists and similar types. Count Gobineau belongs to a wider Western aristocratic intellectual tradition, and it is psychologically revealing you cannot tolerate different perspectives without compulsively pigeonholing according to arbitrary modern standards.

    Leave a comment:


  • josh w.
    replied
    At one level I did not see Hrodbehrt's comments as Anti-Semitic in intent. When he said that he did not see himself as a threat, I took that as an honest answer. ( I saw his comments as an intellectual exercise or game of a 20 year old and am not at all surprised at his Semitic background. ). However his remarks may still be Anti-Semitic in consequence with respect to their effect on others. Anyone who does an internet search in this area will encounter racist sites. Nevertheless, protection of our civil liberties including freedom of speech is what separates us from the "isms".
    Last edited by josh w.; 20 December 2005, 07:38 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Denning
    replied
    Originally posted by Hrodberht
    Due to the disproportionate vitriol and ideological intensity unleashed upon me in private correspondence by certain individuals, I think I ought to straighten matters out:

    1. Modern Western, Ashekenazic Jews are significantly interbred with Indo-Europeans and Central Asians. There is simply no denying this. All assertions to the contrary are anti-scientific and obscurantist. From Ellen Levy-Coffman's highly interesting report

    http://www.jogg.info/coffman.htm
    .

    ellens wrong we have had it out before. that's one reason i left dna genealogy.
    scientificly lol no one wants to except archeology. look at the behiston rock. the rock is bookkeeping records of the way the assyrians moved people and other things govermental.
    they refer to the hebrew tribe as the kumri [hard k like khumani]. it is derived
    from the name of one of the last kings of the house of israel Omri.
    these people in the millions crossed the mts. Ezra asked them to return to israel . they declined .
    On the other side of the mt they dissapeared and a group numbering in the millions was found and named by the greeks Keltoi. These people because only their eldest kid would inherit and the rest had to move west to find their wealth.They did and they settled in slow waves the area know and the balkins and europe

    what two nations in the world had cities of refuge?

    they did not want to be known as what they were but they couldnt get rid of their traditions buried deep in their soul.
    these were the first to bury their dead

    oh!!! i am sorry for this i forgot science didnt cover this.pay no attention to the words above .if you do you might have to think.instead blindly except what the experts in their german relativism demand you believe. never open your mind to see what new things happen.

    too many challanging facts might deter you from excepting all dogma approved by the acadamy of sciences.i mean we cant have another Lister or Pasteur. Dogma is important

    Leave a comment:


  • MMaddi
    replied
    Originally posted by Hrodberht
    dentate,

    You are undoubtedly right. I was being irresponsibly simplistic when I used the words "massive majority". I acknowledge that Jews are a composite group of Middle Eastern, Indo-European, Asiatic, and African genetic backgrounds, with Middle Eastern and Indo-European predominating. The French philosopher Gobineau referred to this process of pan-human amalgamation as semiticization.

    As to Zionism, you need not feel defensive. I am no clear and present danger to the Jewish community. I do perhaps wish the aryanized Jews of modernity would drop their biblical hypocrisy and become honest Machiavellians, but I don't expect much of any set of humans. I am indifferent if the inherently mendacious simian tribalist slaves of the demiurge on this planet cling to their delusory totemistic self-esteem mechanisms. Nationalism, internationalism, marxism, capitalism, fascism are merely pious verbalisms to cover up the lecherous self-seeking nothingness of groups of barely spiritually evolved, hairless monkeys. I know better than to do anything but laugh in a mix of sadness and contempt at the farce of human politics.
    I am the person that Hrodberht is referring to in his last posting who has sent him private messages pointing out his anti-semitic comments on this board. I did not want to make that charge publicly because, frankly, his R1a theories that he has posted here and on another genetic genealogy e-mail list should not be treated too seriously, given what is their motivation.

    Since he denies the charge, judge for yourself. I've quoted one of his recent postings on this message board. He's free to say whatever he wants, of course. But I do object to him trying to use population genetics and genetic genealogy as a cover for his motivations. If you doubt Hrodberht's true motivations, note his citation of Gobineau, a 19th century French white race supremacy advocate. Read about Gobineau at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_de_Gobineau

    Mike Maddi

    Leave a comment:


  • Hrodberht
    replied
    Due to continuing false attacks in private correspondence, I want to publicly clarify that I will not tolerate claims that I am "anti-Semitic". Pure nonsense. Anti-Semitic? The logic is nonexistent behind this claim and I refuse to be intimidated by sophism and moralism. I made, in an inconsequential lapse of judgement that only ideological fanatics would care about, sarcastic comments relating to ZIONISM and its biblically-based ideology and the genetical reality of current-day Jews. Half-baked, sarcastic comments relating to ZIONISM do not constitute "anti-Semitism". I am "Semitic" myself. My European ancestors were brutally dehumanized in the Nazi-Fascist period due to our supposed "Jewish taint" so I find this nonsense doubly illogical and despicable. I will not tolerate the insinuation that I have some sort of unwholesome and hidden nazi-esque agenda and I have no desire to deal with these distortions and misattributions anymore.

    This is really the last public post I want to make relating to this. Perhaps some moderator could look into my mailbox and restrain this member from further unleashing baseless attacks against my character.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hrodberht
    replied
    Due to the disproportionate vitriol and ideological intensity unleashed upon me in private correspondence by certain individuals, I think I ought to straighten matters out:

    1. Modern Western, Ashekenazic Jews are significantly interbred with Indo-Europeans and Central Asians. There is simply no denying this. All assertions to the contrary are anti-scientific and obscurantist. From Ellen Levy-Coffman's highly interesting report

    http://www.jogg.info/coffman.htm

    we see that mainstream geneticists like Cavalli-Sforza conservatively estimate Ashkenazic intermixture at around 40%. Persons who would attack me for simply acknowledging and assimilating facts are ill-motivated.

    2. The question of Indo-European (Hittite? Luwian? Slavic? Khazar?) genetic influence in the case of the Levitical caste is legitimate, ought to be posed, and is not going away.

    3. I apologize for my irrelevant comments relating to politics. Minor insomnia sometimes makes one forget context. Hazy, casual, primitive political comments on a DNA messageboard are inappropriate and I realize my fault. But what I did was not criminal. I tried to make it understood that I am not at all interested in modern human politics, which I regard as pure decadence across all systems and catering to bestial lowest-common-denominator desires, and I couldn't be less interested in anti-Zionism or Zionism. I am 20-year-old college student and I am currently studying my primary interests (anthropology, genetics, and archaeology) at a top-ranking college through scholarships with a career in mind. I am stoically amused by the fact that my crowd-mentality accusers assume I am assuming certain things, and then, in their totalitarian drive toward anti-totalitarianism, project their own rotten fixations (you rabid Nazi racist!) onto me and self-righteously pretend I'm scum.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlackWolf
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerochim
    Being Jewish is not defined genetically. The conversion process allows anyone to become Jewish. It is possible to have Jewish ancestry, and not be Jewish. It is also possible to be Jewish, and have no Jewish ancestry. The Jews are a people, comprised of many different varieties.
    I think it is interesting to note that my 12 Marker Y-DNA Matches gives me 2 matches for Arab. One from Syria and one from Saudi Arabia.
    The topic of the Khazars is a favorite among anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists. They use it as a justification as to why Israel should not exist.
    Have there been any studies on the Khazar's DNA? Is there any proof that connects Haplogroups R1a1 and Q to the Khazars? Or is this research being avoided?
    Exactly, I show the same 12 marker Y-dna for Arab with both of mine being Syrian. I also have have about 8 for Ashkenazi and Ashkenazi Levite, 2 for Chinese Muslim and a couple of Native Siberian. Yeah, and the thing is I am R1b with ancestry most likely in England.

    R1b, R1a and R have been in the Middle East for a long time. Some of the R types are recent but some, are ancient coming from groups like the Indo European Hittities.

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