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  • #16
    At one level I did not see Hrodbehrt's comments as Anti-Semitic in intent. When he said that he did not see himself as a threat, I took that as an honest answer. ( I saw his comments as an intellectual exercise or game of a 20 year old and am not at all surprised at his Semitic background. ). However his remarks may still be Anti-Semitic in consequence with respect to their effect on others. Anyone who does an internet search in this area will encounter racist sites. Nevertheless, protection of our civil liberties including freedom of speech is what separates us from the "isms".
    Last edited by josh w.; 20 December 2005, 07:38 PM.

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    • #17
      MMadi,

      You are using the guilt-by-assocation fallacy, a common fallacy among the intellectually undisciplined. There is no absolute linear commonality between Count Gobineau's worldview and my own merely because I cited one of his ideas.

      You lack the detachment and breadth of vision of a historian, so your preconditioned opinion doesn't interest me.

      Anyhow, if you wish to force this issue, my initial interest in Gobineau came from the fact that my non-Semitic Sicilian-Norman side possesses indefinite ancestral links to this figure.

      I was intrigued by his fictional work and writings about the Orient before I learned of his anthropological texts.

      Moderns today cannot penetrate into the mind of the European aristocrat of old. Gobineau was not an evil-minded "racist" or "white supremacist" in the constricted, heinous, politically-overcharged sense in which contemporary ideologues use these words. His thinking was far more refined and complex than the modern mass media has taught us to expect of so-called "racists", too refined and complex to be elliptically and propagandistically summarized by a dumbed-down online encyclopedia that allows its content to be determined by pro-pedophilia activists and similar types. Count Gobineau belongs to a wider Western aristocratic intellectual tradition, and it is psychologically revealing you cannot tolerate different perspectives without compulsively pigeonholing according to arbitrary modern standards.

      Comment


      • #18
        Also, it should be noted that, as I explained in another recent post, my allegedly outrageous and agenda-driven theory relating to the relationship between Y-DNA Hg R1a, Indo-Europeans/Indo-Iranians/Indo-Germanics/Indo-Celtics (whatever one decides to label them!), and the Volga-Ural Kurgan culture is shared with premier archaeo-geneticist Spencer Wells and even plainly stated in the "Atlas of the Human Journey" section on the Genographic Project website. My conclusions and theories and ideas are widely consensually agreed upon in the modern scientific anthropological and genetic world. So it is not like I'm some fringe wacko manipulating data to fit suspected ulterior motivations.
        ...........
        josh w.,

        Thank you for your rationality.
        ...........

        Jim,

        I see no reason to dismiss the general picture arrived at by modern historians and high-calibre geneticists like Cavalli-Sforza, etc., but I am no dogmatist. The question of Cimmerian Israelites is perhaps also related to my own speculatons about Hittite or Luwian Israelites.

        I am familiar with the idea that the lost northern tribes of Israel became the Cimmerians and invaded the West. I am not sure if you are aware of this, but this is the core idea of the modern cult of British Israelism and its various offshoots (Christian Identity, the Aryan Nations, 'Serpent Seedliners', etc). This idea of the northern tribes becoming Cimmerians and Scythians is attractively romantic, but could you refer to any reliable scientific, historical, or anthropological-genetic research supporting your view?
        Last edited by Hrodberht; 21 December 2005, 12:04 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Hrodberht
          Also, it should be noted that, as I explained in another recent post, my allegedly outrageous and agenda-driven theory relating to the relationship between Y-DNA Hg R1a, Indo-Europeans/Indo-Iranians/Indo-Germanics/Indo-Celtics (whatever one decides to label them!), and the Volga-Ural Kurgan culture is shared with premier archaeo-geneticist Spencer Wells and even plainly stated in the "Atlas of the Human Journey" section on the Genographic Project website. My conclusions and theories and ideas are widely consensually agreed upon in the modern scientific anthropological and genetic world. So it is not like I'm some fringe wacko manipulating data to fit suspected ulterior motivations.
          ...........
          josh w.,

          Thank you for your rationality.
          ...........

          Jim,

          I see no reason to dismiss the general picture arrived at by modern historians and high-calibre geneticists like Cavalli-Sforza, etc., but I am no dogmatist. The question of Cimmerian Israelites is perhaps also related to my own speculatons about Hittite or Luwian Israelites.

          I am familiar with the idea that the lost northern tribes of Israel became the Cimmerians and invaded the West. I am not sure if you are aware of this, but this is the core idea of the modern cult of British Israelism and its various offshoots (Christian Identity, the Aryan Nations, 'Serpent Seedliners', etc). This idea of the northern tribes becoming Cimmerians and Scythians is attractively romantic, but could you refer to any reliable scientific, historical, or anthropological-genetic research supporting your view?
          Yes, but there is not denying the fact that the languages spoken in the West are Indo-European. IMO, the only true isolate people from the Ice ages are the Basque. There language is a true isolate. All others came from the East and probably at a latter date, not during the Ice ages as has been suggested.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Hrodberht
            Also, it should be noted that, as I explained in another recent post, my allegedly outrageous and agenda-driven theory relating to the relationship between Y-DNA Hg R1a, Indo-Europeans/Indo-Iranians/Indo-Germanics/Indo-Celtics (whatever one decides to label them!), and the Volga-Ural Kurgan culture is shared with premier archaeo-geneticist Spencer Wells and even plainly stated in the "Atlas of the Human Journey" section on the Genographic Project website. My conclusions and theories and ideas are widely consensually agreed upon in the modern scientific anthropological and genetic world. So it is not like I'm some fringe wacko manipulating data to fit suspected ulterior motivations.
            ...........
            josh w.,

            Thank you for your rationality.
            ...........

            Jim,

            I see no reason to dismiss the general picture arrived at by modern historians and high-calibre geneticists like Cavalli-Sforza, etc., but I am no dogmatist. The question of Cimmerian Israelites is perhaps also related to my own speculatons about Hittite or Luwian Israelites.

            I am familiar with the idea that the lost northern tribes of Israel became the Cimmerians and invaded the West. I am not sure if you are aware of this, but this is the core idea of the modern cult of British Israelism and its various offshoots (Christian Identity, the Aryan Nations, 'Serpent Seedliners', etc). This idea of the northern tribes becoming Cimmerians and Scythians is attractively romantic, but could you refer to any reliable scientific, historical, or anthropological-genetic research supporting your view?

            where do i start.

            well for starters some of the tribes that got lost were the germani and engli.
            do you remember the story of joseph and his coat. and the have you seen the 10 comandments
            .in the movie [i know its a movie] the cloth of moses was striped and multi colored . that was not uncommon. so wht would kjosephs coat of many colors be different. err.. thinking well what if it was a plaid coat.

            moving on the thuatha da danaan is translated tribe of dan.dan left there land in palestine long before the assyraians captured the house of Isreal.they had this strange habit they named everything after their founder dn hebrew didnt have vowel points. and neither did olgham the keltoi alphabet dn is their marking. for more on this i sugest you read the book america bc by barry fell link to amzon below.Interesting in Ireland den was judge and dan in hebrew both meant judge . and the phrophecies of jacob said dan would be a snake by the side of the road to judge the other nations

            I asked which two countries had cities of refuge the answer is israel and ireland.
            the problem dan had with god was his idols.Bael was his god perhaps the other thing he named his territories after was bael tons of irish locations have the prefix .
            The Cimmerians [ only one of the tribal names they were known as]were tremendous worriors with arrow and horse back. this part of the 10 tribe is placed in Scotland. Perhaps the best warrors in europe.

            enough of that line

            about the brothers and the rest of the nuts which what they were and are
            . the brother were crazy but they did grab the obvious. they saw the prophecy that joseph and mannassah would be a commonwealth or nations who would posess the gates of their enemies. only two countries have done this England and America . they have the suez, panama and all the important see channels the capes africa and south america. Then the brothers demanded the quenn give them the crown lol. needless to say queen had them locked up as insane.
            the aryians do believe this only because it works in their favor. until faces with its ramifications by people who know the whole story. then they demand that parts of this simply dont apply. I get tons of emails from them and they never walk away happy.
            what people never bring up when they say keltoi israelism is ayrian . The real ayrian thought started at the start of the 1900s when german rationalism was invadingthe college campus worldwide.Its goal was to erase any teachings which might allow for a pewerful entity to be working in the world today. They would not allow for history to show what historians had beeen teaching for years. Its this that outlaws any mention of subjects as related to reality. the truth being all subject intwine math intertwines with music and dna is woven into history.
            it is german relativisn whcih was the basic of the aryan nazi thought pattern. people like the noble peace prize winrers who worked for I.G. FARBEN. Who ate gormet dinner in the city of Auschwitz. when they ran the camp. they invented the bunna soup which would keep a worker alive for 3 months til they droped dead. Margaret Sanger was one of the german realtist she founded planned parenthood. I suggest you get a copy of the crimes and punishment of i.g.farben by joseph barkin



            13. Amazon.com: America B.C.: Ancient Settlers in the New World: Books
            ... one had lived in the Americas prior to about 1000 BC. After Clovis prevailed, the religion became "Clovis ... of time. With America B.C.- Barry Fell has presented an exciting ...
            http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg.../-/0812906241?... [Found on Yahoo! Search]

            2
            Amazon.com: The Crime and Punishment of IG Farben: Books
            Amazon.com: The Crime and Punishment of IG Farben: Books by Joseph Borkin.
            http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg.../-/0029046300?... [Found on Google]

            1. The World Government Conspiracy
            The Crimes and Punishment of IG Farben. [I lifted this digitization, complete with typos, from http://home.earthlink.net/~x288files/IGintro.htm.] ...
            www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/igfintro.html [Found on Google, Yahoo! Search]

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by BlackWolf
              Yes, but there is not denying the fact that the languages spoken in the West are Indo-European. IMO, the only true isolate people from the Ice ages are the Basque. There language is a true isolate. All others came from the East and probably at a latter date, not during the Ice ages as has been suggested.

              read barry's book
              there is a monolith is spain millenia old untralatable until he did it using the creek indian albphabet. you might find that interesting
              btw harvard where he taught has disowned him as too radical lol

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Jim Denning
                read barry's book
                there is a monolith is spain millenia old untralatable until he did it using the creek indian albphabet. you might find that interesting
                btw harvard where he taught has disowned him as too radical lol

                thats untranslatable

                i dont ask any of you to believe all this I DO!

                But i see my results and all the post why askenazis and i feel supported by it

                Comment


                • #23
                  I Don't know Jim, I don't want to reach at straws here and do not want to sound like a elitist. I have seen many make arguements for THERE Haplo and against or brush off a haplo like R1b because it does not fit within there own unique realm.

                  I guess it is that human need for attention or to feel "special". That aside, when you hear things like R1a pretty much GAVE the R1b Celts there Indo-E language I just have to laugh out loud.

                  It appears many want to make a connection to the Middle East and/or Central Asia. Mostly, because a lot of Europeans have a lot of oral history and also because of the religious connections.

                  They also want to be special, a dangerous concept that has lead to severe Hard left wing/right wind idealology that have killed millions throughout history. The Germans, Jews, English, Romans, Japanese etc. etc. and now some would say Americans (although I strongly disagree)

                  Now it's Haplos, how silly. Even in some of the descriptions like (R1b was responsible for the beautiful cave art seen in France) Give me a break. As if you are giving a comment while at the same time saying that people of Western European origin are still near the cave man level LOL! Why not say that R1b were the among the first peoples to conquer the known civillized world! Oh, can't give that description.

                  I guess that's why I am defending R1b. History shows different than what is being said and the dna shows different. If it did not, then I would just shut my mouth.

                  I believe R1b has been in Asia Minor and Syria for at least 4000 years (Hittite).

                  The Celts were at one time in Asia Minor, that is a fact.

                  How do people think that all those Central Asian Chinese Muslims have so much R1b! Did they migrate all the way over there during the last Ice Ages as suggested for R1b in Europe! LOL!

                  And of course, no ONE PEOPLE ARE OR WERE ONE HAPLOGROUP. People of Europe (including the Jews) are a mix of several different Haplogroups. I just beleive most of the came to Europe after the ice ages.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by BlackWolf
                    I Don't know Jim, I don't want to reach at straws here and do not want to sound like a elitist. I have seen many make arguements for THERE Haplo and against or brush off a haplo like R1b because it does not fit within there own unique realm.

                    I guess it is that human need for attention or to feel "special". That aside, when you hear things like R1a pretty much GAVE the R1b Celts there Indo-E language I just have to laugh out loud.

                    It appears many want to make a connection to the Middle East and/or Central Asia. Mostly, because a lot of Europeans have a lot of oral history and also because of the religious connections.

                    They also want to be special, a dangerous concept that has lead to severe Hard left wing/right wind idealology that have killed millions throughout history. The Germans, Jews, English, Romans, Japanese etc. etc. and now some would say Americans (although I strongly disagree)

                    Now it's Haplos, how silly. Even in some of the descriptions like (R1b was responsible for the beautiful cave art seen in France) Give me a break. As if you are giving a comment while at the same time saying that people of Western European origin are still near the cave man level LOL! Why not say that R1b were the among the first peoples to conquer the known civillized world! Oh, can't give that description.

                    I guess that's why I am defending R1b. History shows different than what is being said and the dna shows different. If it did not, then I would just shut my mouth.

                    I believe R1b has been in Asia Minor and Syria for at least 4000 years (Hittite).

                    The Celts were at one time in Asia Minor, that is a fact.

                    How do people think that all those Central Asian Chinese Muslims have so much R1b! Did they migrate all the way over there during the last Ice Ages as suggested for R1b in Europe! LOL!

                    And of course, no ONE PEOPLE ARE OR WERE ONE HAPLOGROUP. People of Europe (including the Jews) are a mix of several different Haplogroups. I just beleive most of the came to Europe after the ice ages.
                    The Celts were at one time in Asia Minor, that is a fact. YES AS WERE EVERYONE ELSE

                    here is what i am saying Europeans reguardless of haplotype are basicly keltic and slovaks and who knows maybe slovak are hebrew /semetics too

                    most of the migrating tribes like e3b have a connection my e3b went thru north africa from down south some made the cresent some came to europe very early and some stayed in palastine

                    see here is the problem
                    no one invading group is all one haplogroup none. So when those e3bs came to europe they had k's q's and whatever
                    we sit here today and say e3bs did this.
                    they didnt in solo, maybe haplogroups have some charaterists that allow e3b to flourish and k' and q's to regress but i dont know that

                    even in britany [the isles] the most are r1b r1a but there are e3es and ks and others .thats always been true
                    the jews may have come from abraham but those black men in the 10 comandments and the tribes they conquered were assimilated so the one abram ydna was part of the whole

                    that happened everywhere

                    what happened was the isrealites where inbetween eygpt and assyrian power they got tired of being invaded and went north

                    thats nothing special

                    what would you do if the 5th army armored divison came thru every year lol

                    look at israel and imagine the wars, where they happened. its alsace lorraine or poland cept for 3000 years lol the pols and alsace. The palatines left alsace . My irish tired of the stupidity left and came here in 1800 after 1798 and robert emmitt. Does the ydna of boston being strong r1b. it means nothing other then r1b people migrated here


                    thats why askenazi is found alot cause the same people who founded them moved west. thats all i am saying and they had tons of haplogroups
                    Last edited by Jim Denning; 22 December 2005, 04:06 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      now all that said i might be proud to be boston irish or some might be proud to be pen. dutch or virginian. thats great
                      personaly i am thrilled my e3b has some connections to being jewish but does that mean i am not irish no way i can handle both but know i know i an an etheopian jew from longford ireland lol(look at the picture fred flintstone] best money i have spent

                      what would of happened in europe if we had this testing how hard would it be to sell people and killing jews if half their matches are askanazi.
                      this breaks down barriers

                      maybe we can stop canbodias and armenias from happening but look at suddan [ my people]. i dont know

                      but i always believe that knowledge is power

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