mtDNA Haplogroup K

[Bob Swinea]

Anyone out there of mtDNA Haplogroup K and willing to share what they know about it and its spread into the Americas? I know some of the basics but I hope there are others who could shed some more light on the subject.
Thanks,
Bob

[nc2015]

Bob: I am also of haplogroup K and all of the information I have is that my mother was British (I am adopted) although she had a Dutch surname (which is irrelevant, of course, since we are talking mtDNA). My closest match in Mitosearch is northeastern Ireland, next closest is northwestern Scotland. Looking at the distribution in the matches page it would appear K's migrated from the Italian Alps up through Germany (where a large nubmer of K's still reside) up through the British Isles and from there to America. I haven't done the extensive research some people have done who visit this site but just looking at the numbers that would be my take on the major migration pattern based on what I have seen so far.

[Bob Swinea]

Hi and thanks for the reply. It is what I have been reading. LIke you I was adopted and have no idea as to my biofather. Just really surprised to find "K" when I am American Indian. Obviously there must have been a European woman in my line somewhere no one remembers or has ever been recorded. As another writer said on this list in reply to another thread that race is out and DNA is the great classifier now. [chuckle] Keeps one humble for sure

[Kelley]

Hi Bob-

I am also "K".
I am not a scientist, but I do know that before the Northern Europeans came to the U.S., the Spaniards came up from Central America and established themselves in New Mexico. I read a book called "Desert Pilgrim" in which the author tells us that a priest in New Mexico told her that there were quite a few "conversos" - (Spanish Jews who converted to Christianity) in New Mexico. From what I have read - Hap "K" is fairly common to European Jews - this could possibly account for your "K" haplogroup results.
But again - I am not a scientist and this is just speculation!

Kelley

[Bob Swinea]

Wow! Thanks Kelley. That's a piece of data I did not know. Fascinating especially since I lived in New Mexico as a small child.
Peace,
Bob

[Kelley]

I checked a book at my library ( I am a librarian) and it did state that the Spanish brought men and women over from Spain to colonize New Mexico. Since the crypto-Jews and conversos were being so heavily persecuted in Spain many of them were eager to leave.

I am in Texas but I like to vacation in New Mexico - it is such a beautiful state. A big contrast with East Texas which is low-lying and humid.
Good luck with your search - I know being an adoptee presents a special challenge when you are trying to find your family history.

Kelley

[Bob Swinea]

Thanks for the encouragement Kelley. Yes, adoptees do face special challenges in their genetic research. For example, my Y-DNA data is meaningless right now because I do not and most likely will not have a surname to which I can tie it. My best path is my mtDNA but my maternal line knows little about its own lineage. As I stated before, I am "card carrying" Cherokee but I showed up with Hap K ! I guess what that can mean is that one of my distant Cherokee grammas was a mixed blood when we all thought the line originated with a full blood. Doing some major historical revisitation of the early [1650-1730] history of English/Scotch and SE Indian interactions and warfare. It was very common then to raid villages and carry off captives, especially women and children, etc. I was surprised to find exactly how many European women were in America at that time. At this point, anything is possible. Except for the mtDNA there is no record. Just another life mystery to accept. :-) Best wishes, Bob

[Kelley]

My family thinks we are part Native America but so far we have not been able to find any definitive proof. It would have been from a Southern tribe - because most of my family history is in the South. The search continues!

Kelley

[Bob Swinea]

Hi Kelley,
The five civilized Tribes of the south, due to the Govt's dealing with us, has left so many "lost birds" around the country. The data from the 2000 census was telling. We Cherokees alone have about 200,000 enrolled Tribal members in the Federally recognized Tribes and [if I remember corectly] some 450,000 "undocumented" Cherokees who are true Cherokee descendants but cannot prove their lineage now due to family history and the Govt's assimilation program. You very well could be of Native descent. Like so many others you might not be able to prove it enough for the Govt [think BIA].
Peace,
Bob

[Jambalaia32]

From Europe!

Anyone out there of mtDNA Haplogroup K and willing to share what they know about it and its spread into the Americas? I know some of the basics but I hope there are others who could shed some more light on the subject.
Thanks,
Bob

Since K is Germanic ,you'd have to trace German people's migrations.I'm sure a bunch came from Britain from yr.1620 on up.And 700,000 people came from Germany during the yr.1850 immigration.I found out that fact in a BabyName book ,where they explain the history of each Nation and it's people titled 'Baby Names From Around The World' ,by Connie L. Ellefson.

[Jambalaia32]

Interesting!

Hi and thanks for the reply. It is what I have been reading. LIke you I was adopted and have no idea as to my biofather. Just really surprised to find "K" when I am American Indian. Obviously there must have been a European woman in my line somewhere no one remembers or has ever been recorded. As another writer said on this list in reply to another thread that race is out and DNA is the great classifier now. [chuckle] Keeps one humble for sure

Are you sure you're ALL Indian? Many Indians I see look real French and I wonder why they say they're Indian( I'm not disregarding Indians I just thought some of them didn't look like Indians!).I also read about a lady on one of these forums who said she was African American,but her mtDNA said she was a Shoshone Indian. You gotta check the genes to be sure! My family on the other hand was never called anything by the gov,but I'm mtK-German AND South Caucasian,whatever that is.I think unless your group represents you the gov.doesn't know what to call you!

[Jambalaia32]

Starnge Facts You Have

Hi Bob-

I am also "K".
I am not a scientist, but I do know that before the Northern Europeans came to the U.S., the Spaniards came up from Central America and established themselves in New Mexico. I read a book called "Desert Pilgrim" in which the author tells us that a priest in New Mexico told her that there were quite a few "conversos" - (Spanish Jews who converted to Christianity) in New Mexico. From what I have read - Hap "K" is fairly common to European Jews - this could possibly account for your "K" haplogroup results.
But again - I am not a scientist and this is just speculation!

Kelley

Whoa,no,Kelly- True Spaniards come from Spain,they are European.Central America is home only to Central American Indians.And Jews are neither Spanish,nor Indian,but desert Semitic people of Israel and Iraq called Ashkenazi Jews.Only 32% of Jews are Hap.K, and onlybecause they intermarried with K-Germans,and those 32% are still distinctly Ashkenazi-not matching other K-Germans.

[Jambalaia32]

DNA finds Tribal Names

Thanks for the encouragement Kelley. Yes, adoptees do face special challenges in their genetic research. For example, my Y-DNA data is meaningless right now because I do not and most likely will not have a surname to which I can tie it. My best path is my mtDNA but my maternal line knows little about its own lineage. As I stated before, I am "card carrying" Cherokee but I showed up with Hap K ! I guess what that can mean is that one of my distant Cherokee grammas was a mixed blood when we all thought the line originated with a full blood. Doing some major historical revisitation of the early [1650-1730] history of English/Scotch and SE Indian interactions and warfare. It was very common then to raid villages and carry off captives, especially women and children, etc. I was surprised to find exactly how many European women were in America at that time. At this point, anything is possible. Except for the mtDNA there is no record. Just another life mystery to accept. :-) Best wishes, Bob

I think they could match your paternal line with others like it and find a surname group you belong to.That's what European men do.As for the K-German woman maybe they chose to have Indian boyfriends-mtK's very liberal,or maybe they were dumped by wimpy German Men and found something better-Who Knows?

[MMaddi]

Not so strange facts

Whoa,no,Kelly- True Spaniards come from Spain,they are European.Central America is home only to Central American Indians.And Jews are neither Spanish,nor Indian,but desert Semitic people of Israel and Iraq called Ashkenazi Jews.Only 32% of Jews are Hap.K, and onlybecause they intermarried with K-Germans,and those 32% are still distinctly Ashkenazi-not matching other K-Germans.

Kelly's facts are actually well known. First of all, remember that "Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492." That started the centuries of Spanish colonization of Mexico, Central America and South America. The fact that Spanish colonizers from these areas went to what is now New Mexico, as Kelly explains in her posting, doesn't make them any less Spanish than their families who remained in Spain.

And there was a significant number of Spanish Jews. They were the Sephardic Jews who were forced by the king and queen of Spain in 1492 to either convert to Catholicism or leave Spain. The Sephardic Jews' ancestors came to Spain from the Middle East and North Africa, but Sephardic Jews were part of Spanish society for centuries. And some of them remained as part of Spanish society after converting after 1492, although they may have secretly kept up Jewish beliefs and rituals. This is exactly what I have read on this message board from Family Tree DNA customers who are U.S. Hispanics from the Southwest, including New Mexico. I remember postings by one or two of them here who were not surprised to learn that their ancestors were actually Jewish "conversos" in New Mexico who kept it secret and still considered themselves Jewish. You can read more about the "conversos" in Spain and the New World on this webpage: http://www.du.edu/~sward/sephardim.html

Mike Maddi

[Jambalaia32]

Yes,I know there are Spanish Jews the Sephards. I've heard of them.I thought Kelly was saying that Spaniards originated in Central America-I know they live in the Americas but I didn't think they came from the Americas.