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Haplogroup J2

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  • #16
    [QUOTE=hdw][QUOTE=Kathleen Carrow]

    And one whose ancestry sounds a lot like mine has maternal line coming from Ingram Northumberland, close to Scotland. Funny thing there is that my married name is Ingram..hubby's parents are both Scots who came to US as adults and met here.Aberdeen which is close to Ingram Northumberland

    Kathleen, speaking as a resident Brit (east-coast Scot), I must take issue with you when you say Aberdeen is close to Ingram in Northumberland. At a guesstimate, I would say they're about 150 miles apart. OK, I grant you, that's chickenfeed in North America where you can travel for a couple of hundred miles and still be in the same state (USA) or province (Canada). But a tiny distance in these islands can take you a long way, ethnically and culturally speaking. Just look at the place-names on the map and you can see where Pictish, Gaelic, Welsh, Norse, Anglo-Saxon and even Norman French names indicate different ethnic groups of settlers, often only a few miles from each other. We FEEL different from each other (even Scot from Scot, never mind the English!), and DNA testing programmes like Bryan Sykes's "Blood of the Isles" project have borne out what people have always suspected, that in different parts of the UK, even in little Scotland, people a few miles apart can have different ethnic profiles.

    Travelling south from Aberdeen, which is in the heart of old Pictland, you cross the Firth of Tay into Fife and soon come to the Firth of Forth, beyond which lies Edinburgh, and the Lothians and Borders, which were originally Welsh then Anglo-Saxon - part of the kingdom of Northumbria. The Romans called the Forth "Mare Caledonicum", the Caledonian Sea, because the people of Fife and beyond were "Caledonians" or Picts, different from the Lothians people.

    Cross the border into England and you're in Northumberland, where the Vikings were once strong. My wife's mtDNA ancestors were from this county, and her haplogroup is U4 (Ulrike), which suggests Viking forebears. Incidentally, I had Northumberland ancestors myself called Stephenson, who came from Alwinton, just a few miles SW of Ingram.

    Harry
    Well.. Geography is obviously not my forte..
    Hubby ( Ingram) is U5..he has not done his YDNA yet.His Ingram relatives are actually in Aberdeen since the 1500s..His mtDNA and his Mother's name is Gunn, from Glagow..James Gunn Ingram.That is his U5, well actually it is Johnstone.From Ireland and Glasgow.His great grandfather Gunn also married a Gunn from Norway where the Gunns originally came from.
    One of my matches in mtDNA who says they come from Ingram also has her family in Aberdeen.
    My own Carrow surname is actually Scottish from LochCarron Scotland..a Sept of MacDonald.My John Carrone/Carrow comes to US in 1643 from Antrim where they also are.
    Sorry..it does seem like a small distance to me and I am originally (55 years) from a small state NJ.My Carrows came from a smaller state Delaware.

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    • #17
      Haplogroup J2

      Thank you River Girl. I found my missing match under the Mito search as you recommended. She is in fact on my personal page matches but under a slightly different name and as there are no identifying kit numbers on the personal page (understandably) there was no way to link her up.

      We seem to be two of the few in the forum from down under.

      You are right there are too many Margaret Lynches. If mine had a (male)relative who came out before or after her then there could be a connection. She was from Newry in Northern Ireland.
      Geraldine

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      • #18
        I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but you mtdna-J2 people have a famous member: the Italian poet Petrarca.

        http://www.upf.edu/cexs/recerca/bioe...amelli-FSI.pdf

        HVR1: 16126, 16193, 16311

        The skeleton in his grave is actually a mixture of two separate skeletons: the head of a woman, and the body of a man. The bones of the man show diseases corresponding to the poet's biography, and have thus been attributed to him.

        cacio

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        • #19
          Originally posted by cacio
          I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but you mtdna-J2 people have a famous member: the Italian poet Petrarca.

          http://www.upf.edu/cexs/recerca/bioe...amelli-FSI.pdf

          HVR1: 16126, 16193, 16311

          The skeleton in his grave is actually a mixture of two separate skeletons: the head of a woman, and the body of a man. The bones of the man show diseases corresponding to the poet's biography, and have thus been attributed to him.

          cacio
          Interesting - I thought that mtDNA J*, J1 and J2 all had 16069 as their signature mutation. At least I share 16126 and 16311 with the great man.

          Harry

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Kathleen Carrow
            Well.. Geography is obviously not my forte..
            Hubby ( Ingram) is U5..he has not done his YDNA yet.His Ingram relatives are actually in Aberdeen since the 1500s..His mtDNA and his Mother's name is Gunn, from Glagow..James Gunn Ingram.That is his U5, well actually it is Johnstone.From Ireland and Glasgow.His great grandfather Gunn also married a Gunn from Norway where the Gunns originally came from.
            One of my matches in mtDNA who says they come from Ingram also has her family in Aberdeen.
            My own Carrow surname is actually Scottish from LochCarron Scotland..a Sept of MacDonald.My John Carrone/Carrow comes to US in 1643 from Antrim where they also are.
            Sorry..it does seem like a small distance to me and I am originally (55 years) from a small state NJ.My Carrows came from a smaller state Delaware.
            Until recently the director of the Royal Botanic Garden in Edinburgh was a David Ingram. His wife was a teaching colleague of my wife's, so I met him a few times. David went on to be master of St. Catherine's College at Cambridge University. I think he is the only Ingram I have ever known.

            Gunn is a Caithness name, of Norse origin, and the most famous bearer of the name that I can think of is the 20th century novelist Neil Gunn - one of Scotland's greatest writers. There is a Clan Gunn association.

            You are lucky to be able to trace your US ancestry back so far. I had Ulster ancestors too, but from Co. Down.

            Harry

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            • #21
              Haplogroup J2

              Kathleen,
              Unfortunately, our maternal ancestors parted company somewhere along the way. I'm 069T, 126C, 193T, 278T, 519C. So you see you have 4 and I have 5 and we share only 3. As you, I and Rivergirl have found there were too many Margaret Lynch's in the 1800s and trying to find anything about mine in Newry seems hopeless.
              Geraldine

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