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R1b sub-clades an geographical distribution

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  • R1b sub-clades an geographical distribution

    I'm new to this but I have results from the Genographic project. I've read that some geographical work has been done for the R1b haplogroup by looking at the DYS 390/391 ratios and their geo concentrations. I see work for 390/391 ratios of 23/11, 24/11, 23/10 and 24/10 but nothing more. Is there more work on this subject? I'm looking for anything on ratio 24/12.

    Thanks.
    Peter Walker

  • #2
    Peter, this is a subject continually discussed on the Genealogy-DNA Rootsweb list. You might go to the list archives and search for 24/12.

    Bill Hurst

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    • #3
      R1b in Sicily

      R1b in Sicily


      If R1b is Celtic. Then how did R1b's find themselves in Sicily?

      Are R1b's native to Sicily?

      Or were they brought from Austria or the British Isles?

      Or could the Normans have Celtic genes that left there mark in Sicily?



      Two types of Normans - Celtic-Normans & Nordic-Normans


      Two types of Sicilian Normans - Celtic-Normans & Nordic-Normans

      I believe there are two types of Norman poplations in Sicily: R1a & R1b.

      The question is whether R1b came from continetial European - from Spain or Austria or from the British Isles?

      I am asking this question - due to having a name via my mother's father's side "Azzo" that means "noble" in Germanic.



      Sicilian Peoples: The Normans


      Here is interesting article written by Vincenzo Salerno:

      http://www.bestofsicily.com/mag/art171.htm

      Genetics & Anthropology in Sicily

      http://www.bestofsicily.com/genetics.htm

      I think r1b's could be result of - the influx of the "Celtic-Nordic" Normans intermarrying with the local population.

      Nordic - most generally, refers to native inhabitants of Scandinavia, northwestern Europe and regions bordering the North Sea.

      Normans - residual Norse civilization of medieval Normandy, amalgamated with the essentially Gallic-Celtic population already resident there. In the medieval context, the Normans were Frankish as well as Scandinavian.

      R1a = Nordic
      R1b = Celtic

      There would have to be a few of us in Sicily

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      • #4
        Rib in Sicily

        Why is this posted in every category?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by johnraciti
          If R1b is Celtic.
          It's not "Celtic" it's about 40.000 years older than
          the oldest trace of a Celtic culture/language.

          Same thing goes for all other haplogroups,
          however old you think of a ethnic group, or their origins,
          the haplogroup is ten times older than that,
          and migrations which could have brought a hg somewhere
          happened thousands of years before written history.

          Comment


          • #6
            R1B - Exact Population Matches

            R1B

            DYS393 = 13
            DYS19/394 = 14
            DYS391 = 11
            DYS439 = 12
            DYS389-1 = 13
            DYS389-2 = 16/29
            DYS388 = 12
            DYS390 = 24
            DYS426 = 12
            DYS385a = 11
            DYS385b = 14
            DYS392 = 13

            Exact Population Matches:

            Spain = 6%
            Italy = 6%
            Netherlands = 6%
            Wales = 6%
            Ireland = 5%
            Great Britain = 4%
            British Isles = 4%
            Belgium = 4%
            France = 3%

            Comment


            • #7
              thanks

              thats very helpful heres my string DYS393: 13 DYS439: 12 DYS388: 12 DYS385a: 11
              DYS19: 14 DYS389-1: 16 DYS390: 24 DYS385b: 14
              DYS391: 11 DYS389-2: 34 DYS426: 12 DYS392: 13

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by johnraciti
                R1b in Sicily

                I think r1b's could be result of - the influx of the "Celtic-Nordic" Normans intermarrying with the local population.

                Nordic - most generally, refers to native inhabitants of Scandinavia, northwestern Europe and regions bordering the North Sea.

                Normans - residual Norse civilization of medieval Normandy, amalgamated with the essentially Gallic-Celtic population already resident there. In the medieval context, the Normans were Frankish as well as Scandinavian.

                R1a = Nordic
                R1b = Celtic

                There would have to be a few of us in Sicily
                Bear in mind that the name "France" comes from the Germanic "Frankish". There also were Suevii, Allemanni, Burgundian, Visagoth, Ostrogoth, Vandal, Alani(Iranian), as well asBelgii, Iberian, Basque, Breton and Roman who contributed to the French population, and I'm confident I left out some important groups. All of the populations I mentioned probably carried R1b at fairly high frequencies.

                The Celts of Normandy were, I believe, distinct from the Gauls. I believe Friedrich II ruled the Holy Roman Empire from Sicily. I would expect some additional German influence coming in that way. Then there's R1b in Turkey, Syria, Lebanon and Greece. You're virtually surrounded.

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