Mayo dna

[1798]

There are two dna maps relating to the Mayo testers on the NG site.The MT map shows U5 in the 8000-5000 BC time frame.I hope that some of them will transfer their results to FTDNA . I might have a U5 match.
R1b which is 88% is shown in the 5000-2500 BC time frame which is a different view than the one given recently at a dna conference.

[1798]

I cant see a lot of the one hundred Mayo people that tested with NG making their results public.

[1798]

If Dr Wells was seeking evidence of ancient dna in Ireland then he went to the right area. He has found lots of it. His age for R1b in western Ireland is at odds to that which Dr Hammer stated.

[Stevo]

Dr. Wells is moving in Dr. Hammer's direction; he just hasn't quite arrived yet. Not too long ago, Wells and the Geno Project site had R1b re-populating the Isles nearly 10,000 years ago, soon after the LGM, which it supposedly spent holed up in the Franco-Cantabrian Ice Age Refuge.

If he is now saying 5,000-2500 BC, that represents quite a shift forward in time. And notice the size of that window: as recently as 2500 BC, which is Bronze Age and corresponds to the arrival in the Isles of the Beaker Folk.

[Stevo]

Here's what Dr. Jim Wilson of BritainsDNA has to say about L21 (S145):

Your ancestors, those who carry the R1b-S145 marker, probably came to Britain and Ireland some time around 2,500BC and after a fine pottery they made, they were called the Beaker Folk.

So, he is pretty obviously in Dr. Hammer's camp but also within the recent end of the time window given by Dr. Wells.

[Rebekah Canada]

mtDNA Comparable

Dr. Wells is moving in Dr. Hammer's direction; he just hasn't quite arrived yet. Not too long ago, Wells and the Geno Project site had R1b re-populating the Isles nearly 10,000 years ago, soon after the LGM, which it supposedly spent holed up in the Franco-Cantabrian Ice Age Refuge.

If he is now saying 5,000-2500 BC, that represents quite a shift forward in time. And notice the size of that window: as recently as 2500 BC, which is Bronze Age and corresponds to the arrival in the Isles of the Beaker Folk.

For a similar shift in the European mtDNA (especially mtDNA H) paradigm, see the paper from earlier this year, Neolithic mitochondrial haplogroup H genomes and the genetic origins of Europeans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23612305
It is slow, but academia is coming around to my way of thinking on H. :-)

[Stevo]

For a similar shift in the European mtDNA (especially mtDNA H) paradigm, see the paper from earlier this year, Neolithic mitochondrial haplogroup H genomes and the genetic origins of Europeans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23612305
It is slow, but academia is coming around to my way of thinking on H. :-)

Check this new report out for what it says about the rapid expansion of y-dna R1b and mtDNA H at about the same time, during the Neolithic Period.

If we had used the more likely 4 to 5 KYA estimate of the R1b TMRCA from the rho statistic [18], the expansion in the current model would have been placed close to this time, well within the Neolithic and, interestingly, also close to the time of establishment of the major European mtDNA haplogroup, H, approximately 6 KYA [7,8]. The rapidity of the R1b expansion and the large increase in population size are most consistent with migration and population replacement, issues debated by archaeologists but favored by the aDNA data [5-9].

[N21163]

Check this new report out for what it says about the rapid expansion of y-dna R1b and mtDNA H at about the same time, during the Neolithic Period.

Thanks Stevo!

[1798]

Check this new report out for what it says about the rapid expansion of y-dna R1b and mtDNA H at about the same time, during the Neolithic Period.

Alright then, where was this one R1b man born ?

[D.Clade]

Check this new report out for what it says about the rapid expansion of y-dna R1b and mtDNA H at about the same time, during the Neolithic Period.

Thanks Stevo!
Modeling the contrasting Neolithic male lineage expansions in Europe and Africa
Michael J Sikora, Vincenza Colonna, Yali Xue and Chris Tyler-Smith

These suggest that in Europe, the R1b lineage experienced an extremely rapid and extensive increase as soon as it entered the continent, expanding more than a thousandfold in a few generations.

Having the downstream y-dna R1b associated with mtDNA H could put a different spin on the "R1b killed all the men" scenarios. Has anybody come across anything that would suggest a pandemic as R1b & H expanded into Europe? Perhaps they could have been infectious disease carriers causing a population collapse allowing new haplogroups to replace the older ones. New of different livestock could cause a pandemic too. Ireland's relative isolation may have made that population the most susceptible to an infectious disease outbreak. Just asking.

[Stevo]

Alright then, where was this one R1b man born ?

We do not know for sure, but probably in western Asia or far eastern Europe.

. . . in Europe, the R1b lineage experienced an extremely rapid and extensive increase as soon as it entered the continent, expanding more than a thousandfold in a few generations.

[Stevo]

Thanks Stevo!
Modeling the contrasting Neolithic male lineage expansions in Europe and Africa
Michael J Sikora, Vincenza Colonna, Yali Xue and Chris Tyler-Smith
Having the downstream y-dna R1b associated with mtDNA H could put a different spin on the "R1b killed all the men" scenarios. Has anybody come across anything that would suggest a pandemic as R1b & H expanded into Europe? Perhaps they could have been infectious disease carriers causing a population collapse allowing new haplogroups to replace the older ones. New of different livestock could cause a pandemic too. Ireland's relative isolation may have made that population the most susceptible to an infectious disease outbreak. Just asking.

Well, here is an interesting article:

NEOLITHIC MASSACRES: LOCAL SKIRMISHES OR GENERAL WARFARE IN EUROPE?

[Stevo]

Of course, those remains are a trifle old, but they do show that there were conflicts and massacres during the Neolithic in Europe.

[D.Clade]

Well, here is an interesting article:

NEOLITHIC MASSACRES: LOCAL SKIRMISHES OR GENERAL WARFARE IN EUROPE?

That paper is CSI-5000 BC
Maybe the dates are early but it looks a little crazy towards the end of the Linearbandkeramik (LBK) culture.
A simple Wiki overview: The Talheim Death Pit
This study, Mass cannibalism in the Linear Pottery Culture at Herxheimsite has pictures. Wikipedia Herxheim (archaeological site)
Looks like LBK on LBK warfare.
Beating ploughshares back into swords: warfare in the Linearbandkeramik

The Schletz-Asparn site near Vienna looks very violent. The remains from Schletz-Asparn and Talheim, as well as numerous other sites, indicatebeyond a doubt that, much of the time, these enemies came from other LBK villages.The crushing blows to the head that killed most individuals at these sites were inflicted by LBK-style axes and adzes.

So we have ritualistic cannibalism and village warfare. A new culture (and haplogroups?) may have been able to exploit that.

[1798]

We do not know for sure, but probably in western Asia or far eastern Europe.

I don't believe it that one man 4000 years ago is the ancestor of 300 million R1b men today. It may work out on computer but I live in the real world.