Austro-Hungarian Empire and Rusyns

[Táltos]

Hi guys, I finally made a major breakthrough in my father's maternal side. This past week I found records that showed that my father's mother's father came from the village of Pazdics, Zemplen County. This was in the Kingdom of Hungary and went on to become modern eastern Slovakia, and the village name today is Pozdišovce. My great grandfather's stated religion on the record was Greek Catholic.

My great grandmother, the record states was from the village of Mihalko,Zemplen County. This was also originally in the Kingdom of Hungary. Thanks to my awesome Hungarian cousin on Gedmatch he was able to clarify for me that the village today is also in eastern Slovakia and goes by the name Michalok. Also in Hungarian it is called Felsőmihályi. He provided me with a lot of great information on that particular village in two different writings on it. First in a writing from the year 1796 it was a mixed Hungarian-Slovak village. Then in another writing from 1851 he found a description of it and that it was a mixed Hungarian-Russian village. And by the Russian they meant Rusyn.

My grandmother had always said that her ethnic background was Czechoslovakian and Russian. By this Russian, given where her parents are from I now understand she meant Rusyn. My Gedmatch cousin filled me in that religion also is an indication of ethnicity. He said that Greek Catholics are overwhelmingly Rusyn. Roman Catholics can be either Hungarian or Slovak, Calvinists are always Hungarian. And that the Jewish people spoke Yiddish or German, and slowly changed to speaking Hungarian in the 19th century.

Just wondering if anyone else out there has Rusyn roots and what it means to them. Such as family traditions, culture and so forth. One thing that sticks out for me was my grandmother made the beautiful Easter eggs, also known as pysanky. She would use beeswax to make the designs. Everything that I have been reading up on Rusyns, is that their origins are up for debate. So any thoughts are most welcome.

[thetick]

My grandmother on my mother's side was Rusyn. They called themselves Ukrainian in the US. They lived and assimilated with the local Polish population including attending the Roman Catholic Church. It's kind of shame the Rusyn language and culture has been assimilated into similar Slavic groups... Polish, Slovak, Ukrainian, or Russian.

[Táltos]

My grandmother on my mother's side was Rusyn. They called themselves Ukrainian in the US. They lived and assimilated with the local Polish population including attending the Roman Catholic Church. It's kind of shame the Rusyn language and culture has been assimilated into similar Slavic groups... Polish, Slovak, Ukrainian, or Russian.

Thank you tick for your input. Yes it is a shame that Rusyn language and culture has been assimilated into other Slavic groups.

Is there an autosomal DNA group at FTDNA for Rusyns? I saw that they have this group http://www.familytreedna.com/public/carpatho-rusyn but I wasn't sure if they are only wanting direct line members. Funny enough, my own mtDNA of H23, I saw there is one H23 that I know of from the Czech Republic. My direct line gets lost back in PA. So who knows there!

EDIT- I see that the background of that group states, "The Carpatho-Rusyn Heritage DNA Project welcomes all males and females of Carpatho-Rusyn heritage." I think I will send them a request to join. :-)

[PDHOTLEN]

OK, now I see. I just Googled Rusyn. They are what older geography texts called Ruthenians. I was trying to turn Rusyns into Rugians (northern coast of Germany). There was some sort of migration from that German area down to Panonia. I was trying to form an hypothesis of how I have a few HVR1 matches from Hungary, Slovakia. But I'm as confused as ever.

[MMaddi]

Here's an informative article from the magazine of the Catholic Near East Welfare Association (CNEWA) - http://www.cnewa.us/default.aspx?ID=...de=US&pageno=1 - about the Rusyns, aka Ruthenians. The article is three pages long; click on the links (2,3) at the bottom right of the first page to get to the next two pages. Page 3 has a couple of paragraphs on the migration of Rusyns to North America and their current status in the U.S.

The CNEWA provides religious and social/economic support to Eastern Rite or Byzantine Catholics in the area from Eastern Europe through the Near East into India.

[Javelin]

Great to hear about your success Táltos! As thetick said Ruthenians tended to identify as Ukrainians in the States, though some continued to identify as Carpatho-Rusyns/Ruthenians elsewhere. There are other similar groups in this area whose history is not well understood, like Huculs.

[prairielad]

My paternal Grandmother was born in Bukovina between 1909 and 1912. She listed her birthdate as 1912, but immigration has it as 1909.
I have yet to locate her place of birth, but her father was born in Siret(Sereth in German)
Him and his brother were part of the Austrian Army and apparently part of the palace Guards for the Habsburg (yet to confirm, but passed on from members of his sisters lines)
Immigration records list my Grandmother's mother residing in Muşeniţa.
My research seems to be pointing in the direction that my Grandmother's mother was of Ruthenian decent.

I do not know if it was the close proximity to the Ruthenian/Ukrainian culture or ancestry but my grandmother did many things considered Ukrainian even though she identified herself as being German( Paternal line moved there from Germany in 1803). She referred to her mother as being Austrian, but I think that had to do with it being under Austro/Hungarian Rule.

I have yet to figure out her mothers background, her maiden name is listed as Aronetz(various immigration records tied to her father who first arrive in Canada in 1913), Aronet (Grandparents marriage record), and Ornetese(Family Bible)

Immigration records for this name (Aronetz) list many of them from Romania listed as Ruthenian and Greek Orthodox, some even list their place of Origin as Waschkautz (German);Romanian: Văşcăuţi which is present day Vashkivtsi, Ukraine. (Ukrainian: Вашківці);

[Táltos]

MMaddi thank you for the great link!

Javelin thank you as well. It felt like I hit the jackpot when I made my discovery. Yes there are quite a few not well understood groups in this area such as the Huculs like you mentioned. I had to laugh when I googled them and saw a cute little pony. But then I realized that they are also known as Hutsuls, which are mentioned in the background information of the Carpatho-Rusyn DNA Project. The Lemkos and Boykos are mentioned there as well. The pony is bred in the Carpathian Mountains and named after the Hutsuls.

prairelad do you know what church your grandmother married in? That was how I finally struck gold. I had finally figured out what church my grandparents had been married in. When I inquired not only was my grandparent's marriage record located, but my grandmother's baptism record, and my great grandparents married there as well. My great grandparents married in 1910. So this also gives me a frame of reference to understand that their villages were actually considered to be in Hungary before they immigrated to the U.S.A. I of course have not come across the immigration or even census records for these guys yet. But something tells me that the church records probably had the most information to reveal.

My paternal grandfather's ancestors still remain a mystery. These records gave me two small clues for his line. I am hoping one of these small clues, one county away from my father's birthplace will finally reveal my paternal ancestors' origins. Fingers crossed!

It is interesting if your grandmother did things considered Ukrainian, and based on what thetick said about Ruthenians identifying as Ukrainians. Also records that you have found with her last name identifying them as Ruthenian and Greek Orthodox would led me to believe these are her roots as well.

I now have a special appreciation for my X chromosome, the area and the peoples that are connected to it. The half I inherited from my father and his mother, my grandma.

[ajmr1a1]

Taltos, one thing you should know is that the Kingdom of Hungary was a huge land mass and after the Ottoman Turks were vanquished in 1699, it became a melting pot of colonists from Germany, Poland, Ukraine, etc.

It is fun to try and sort out your autosomal matches with this mix.
I have got clusters of Hungarian, German, Polish and Rusyn DNA matches.

Even if I don't find the matching paper trail, I am happy to know the region or village where these matches are concentrated.

P.S. After 1895, civil registration became law in Hungary. So prior to this, you would have to find the church records and if you are lucky the 1828 Hungarian Land Owners census and the 1869 Hungarian census.
Check here if you village in present day Slovakia is listed in the 1869 census:

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1986782

[prairielad]

.............

prairelad do you know what church your grandmother married in? That was how I finally struck gold. I had finally figured out what church my grandparents had been married in. When I inquired not only was my grandparent's marriage record located, but my grandmother's baptism record, and my great grandparents married there as well. My great grandparents married in 1910. So this also gives me a frame of reference to understand that their villages were actually considered to be in Hungary before they immigrated to the U.S.A. I of course have not come across the immigration or even census records for these guys yet. But something tells me that the church records probably had the most information to reveal.

My paternal grandfather's ancestors still remain a mystery. These records gave me two small clues for his line. I am hoping one of these small clues, one county away from my father's birthplace will finally reveal my paternal ancestors' origins. Fingers crossed!

It is interesting if your grandmother did things considered Ukrainian, and based on what thetick said about Ruthenians identifying as Ukrainians. Also records that you have found with her last name identifying them as Ruthenian and Greek Orthodox would led me to believe these are her roots as well.

I now have a special appreciation for my X chromosome, the area and the peoples that are connected to it. The half I inherited from my father and his mother, my grandma.

My Grandmother immigrated to Canada in 1930 and married my Grandfather(Scottish/Irish) here in 1936. So her marriage record does not offer that much information other then listing her mothers maiden name as Aronet (without the z) and listing my Grandmother as Romanian.

Through familysearch I can find my Grandmother's father's baptismal records as well as his siblings and some of their marriage records, but I have yet to find her parents marriage record. I have a feeling they were married elsewhere depending on where he was with the Austrian Army..... Hopefully I can connect her(my Grandmother's mother) to some family that may give me a clue on where to locate said marriage record and possibly my Grandmother birth/baptismal record.

There is Aronetz(spelled Aronitz) in around the area where my Grandmother family settled here in Canada, but contact with them has not been very helpful.
This family list nationality as Hungarian, immigration records list him as Austrian and from Waschkautz.

My Great Grandfather travelled with an Aronetz in 1913 who wife was also listed as residing in what I believe is Muşeniţa (see attachment). Both my great Grandfather and the Aronetz man are listed as Greek Catholic.
On his 1927 passenger list it clearly lists him as coming from Muşeniţa as well as my Grandmother's 1930 passenger list.

Now I just need to figure out how to search these areas records from afar....

[Táltos]

@prairelad, oh drat! It was late the other night and I should have thought it through more, yes great grandparent records would probably offer more information than the grandparent. However if you did not know a maiden name before hand, then grandparent record should offer you that valuable information, which it did for you.

I have been squinting my eyes and trying to read it sideways to make out the document for you and I'm at a loss. It looks like it starts with an M, but then it looks like a W to me. If you want I can see if my Gedmatch cousin can make heads or tails out of it for you?

@ajmr1a1, yes the more I learn about genealogy, the more I learn that all of these areas are melting pots. And to not always expect what you would expect. I have been rechecking my matches on Gedmatch, and I had thought in the past I saw your email amongst my matches. Today I do not see it. I also noticed quite a few that I used to have are not there anymore. So I'm not sure if they changed the matching algorithm, or another thread mentioned there is a bug? Anyway, I will pm you if you would like to compare over there.

[jhgren]

It looks like it reads Muschenitza.

Jacob

[prairielad]

It looks like it reads Muschenitza.

Jacob

That is what I believe it reads also, which is Muşeniţa now.

[Táltos]

That is what I believe it reads also, which is Muşeniţa now.

prairielad not sure if you ever saw this site. http://www.bukovinasociety.org/Bukov...Name-List.html your village is shown with the name you have and the name that Jacob mentioned. No hyperlinks on that village. But maybe you can find something helpful there.

[prairielad]

prairielad not sure if you ever saw this site. http://www.bukovinasociety.org/Bukov...Name-List.html your village is shown with the name you have and the name that Jacob mentioned. No hyperlinks on that village. But maybe you can find something helpful there.

Yes, I did have a membership at one point, did find it helpful with a lot of things as well as gaining a better understanding of my Grandmothers background.

If memory serves me correctly there was even an extensive tree posted there of my Grandmothers paternal line, but while her fathers siblings lines were there, her father was just listed with date of birth and location.