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Opinions on DNA results much appreciated - FTDna, Ancestry and Dr. McDonald

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  • Opinions on DNA results much appreciated - FTDna, Ancestry and Dr. McDonald

    Hi Everyone - I purchased the autosomal DNA kit from Ancestry.com, I then uploaded the raw data to FTDna, and I also submitted the raw data to Dr. McDonald for his analysis. A brief run down of what I was expecting:

    Maternal Grandmother supposedly of Scottish descent, but never confirmed as I have not been able to document back to the ancestor who first came to the US
    Maternal Granddather - unknown, my mother never knew him, was only told his last name was "Clark"

    Paternal Grandmother - 100% Hungarian, well documented, although her father was from Bohemia
    Paternal Grandfather - 100% Southern Italian, very well documented that both of his parents were from Campania region of Italy, documented to late 1700s.

    Let's just say I would not be surprised if there were a NPE (non paternal event) somewhere in my paternal line.

    AncestryDna results:

    49% British Isles
    20% Middle Eastern
    21% Eastern European
    10% Central European

    FTDna PF results:

    70.73% Orcadian
    29.27% Middle Eastern (Palestinian, Bedouin, Jewish)

    Dr. Doug McDonald:

    This is the message he wrote me and I will attach the map and graphs he attached:
    “The automated computer results are as follows.
    Please read the attached .rtf file for an explanation of how to
    interpret all the data and plots. Both can be misleading without interpretation.

    Most likely fit is 74.3% (+- 9.6%) Europe (various subcontinents)
    and 25.7% (+- 9.6%) Mideast (various subcontinents)

    The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
    most likely at the top

    English= 0.673 Jewish= 0.327 or
    French= 0.840 Turkish= 0.160 or
    Germany= 0.643 Jewish= 0.357 or
    Irish= 0.643 Sephardic= 0.357 or
    Irish= 0.602 Jewish= 0.398 or
    Hungary= 0.806 Sephardic= 0.194 or
    English= 0.711 Sephardic= 0.289 or
    Hungary= 0.779 Jewish= 0.221 or
    French= 0.875 Iranian= 0.125 or
    French= 0.862 Armenian= 0.138
    Second most likely fit is 100% Europe (various subcontinents)

    The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
    most likely at the top
    Sicily= 0.241 Hungary= 0.759 or
    Tuscan= 0.360 Hungary= 0.640 or
    Sicily= 0.421 Irish= 0.579 or
    Tuscan= 0.565 Irish= 0.435 or
    French= 0.370 Romania= 0.630 or
    Tuscan= 0.590 Poland= 0.410 or
    Sicily= 0.447 Poland= 0.553 or
    English= 0.218 Romania= 0.782 or
    Sicily= 0.347 English= 0.653 or
    Tuscan= 0.656 Lithuania= 0.344

    Since you expect a three-fold (at least) mix, I did a custom fit:

    Russian 0.0722 French 0.7901 Georgian 0.1376 or
    French 0.7398 Romania 0.1337 Adygei 0.1265 or
    English 0.6382 Romania 0.1843 Armenian 0.1775 or
    English 0.6192 Finland 0.0907 Cypriot 0.2901 or
    Irish 0.4643 Tuscan 0.4660 Adygei 0.0698 or
    Germany 0.3786 Spain 0.4744 Adygei 0.1470 or
    French 0.7230 Hungary 0.1335 Adygei 0.1434 or
    English 0.6107 Hungary 0.1702 Armenian 0.2191 or
    Irish 0.5236 Tuscan 0.3636 Armenian 0.1128 or
    Irish 0.4951 Tuscan 0.4309 Georgian 0.0741”

    I guess my "main" question is:

    Do you think that the Middle Eastern portion of my results are legit/recent - or do you think that is actually representing Southern Italian?

    If anyone wants to give their opinions on what my Primary ancestry is looking to be, or any input in general as far as whether or not it looks consistent with my paternal lines, I would great appreciate it. I'm new to this and reading up on how to interpret results, but it gets confusing with the plethora of info out there. Thanks so much!
    Attached Files

  • #2
    You don't have any doc's on half your ancestry so why would any of us risk an opinion on whether your admixture results from three providers are wrong or right?

    DO THE WORK!
    Last edited by tomcat; 26 June 2013, 10:22 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      tomcat - you have no idea the work I have put into my family research.
      I'm new to DNA testing so you will have to forgive me for not knowing it would be worthless (and apparently offensive ?) for me to post asking for input. No one forced you to comment.

      Comment


      • #4
        confetticake,

        Welcome to the Family Tree DNA forum! There are plenty of friendly & helpful people here, so hopefully someone who has worked closely with the various admixture models will provide you with some feedback.

        Good luck with your search, and I certainly hope you break through your brick walls someday. Most of us have brick walls that we would love to see come crashing down

        Elise
        Last edited by efgen; 26 June 2013, 11:30 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks Elise! Seems like when you finally break through one wall, 3 more pop up

          Comment


          • #6
            Hello Confetticake,

            I will take a guess on one portion of your admixture as I just was in the same position you were in and had very similar results from Dr. mcDonald and PF and just got my Uncle to do Y-DNA testing so I know some of the puzzling answers now.

            My mother is 1/4 Italian from Abruzzi back to the 1700s like you. However we had a family rumor that they might have originally come from Albania but nothing to back it up. Dr. McDonald had some Italian in my mothers sample and also some Georgian and Cypriot and Caucaus population that he was puzzled by. It seems you also have that but as you are Hungarian it could be due to that. But my Uncle's y-DNA came back I2a2 which is common in the Balkans and in particular we think Serbia or Albania. Not in Italy. I am waiting for the Y-37 test to get more info but almost all of his matches were Serbian/Croatian/Albanian or Greek.

            My mother is also 50% Jewish so I cannot comment on that part of your test as I don't know if it is picking up the Italian-although it seems an an awfully high percentage if it is just the Italian. Are you sure the Hungarian people in your tree might not be part Jewish? That would make the ME portion accurate if there was one grandparent that was Ashkenazi Jew.

            You may want to start with their surnames if you know them. Sometimes they can hold a clue.

            Good luck!


            Originally posted by confetticake View Post
            Hi Everyone - I purchased the autosomal DNA kit from Ancestry.com, I then uploaded the raw data to FTDna, and I also submitted the raw data to Dr. McDonald for his analysis. A brief run down of what I was expecting:

            Maternal Grandmother supposedly of Scottish descent, but never confirmed as I have not been able to document back to the ancestor who first came to the US
            Maternal Granddather - unknown, my mother never knew him, was only told his last name was "Clark"

            Paternal Grandmother - 100% Hungarian, well documented, although her father was from Bohemia
            Paternal Grandfather - 100% Southern Italian, very well documented that both of his parents were from Campania region of Italy, documented to late 1700s.

            Let's just say I would not be surprised if there were a NPE (non paternal event) somewhere in my paternal line.

            AncestryDna results:

            49% British Isles
            20% Middle Eastern
            21% Eastern European
            10% Central European

            FTDna PF results:

            70.73% Orcadian
            29.27% Middle Eastern (Palestinian, Bedouin, Jewish)

            Dr. Doug McDonald:

            This is the message he wrote me and I will attach the map and graphs he attached:
            “The automated computer results are as follows.
            Please read the attached .rtf file for an explanation of how to
            interpret all the data and plots. Both can be misleading without interpretation.

            Most likely fit is 74.3% (+- 9.6%) Europe (various subcontinents)
            and 25.7% (+- 9.6%) Mideast (various subcontinents)

            The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
            most likely at the top

            English= 0.673 Jewish= 0.327 or
            French= 0.840 Turkish= 0.160 or
            Germany= 0.643 Jewish= 0.357 or
            Irish= 0.643 Sephardic= 0.357 or
            Irish= 0.602 Jewish= 0.398 or
            Hungary= 0.806 Sephardic= 0.194 or
            English= 0.711 Sephardic= 0.289 or
            Hungary= 0.779 Jewish= 0.221 or
            French= 0.875 Iranian= 0.125 or
            French= 0.862 Armenian= 0.138
            Second most likely fit is 100% Europe (various subcontinents)

            The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
            most likely at the top
            Sicily= 0.241 Hungary= 0.759 or
            Tuscan= 0.360 Hungary= 0.640 or
            Sicily= 0.421 Irish= 0.579 or
            Tuscan= 0.565 Irish= 0.435 or
            French= 0.370 Romania= 0.630 or
            Tuscan= 0.590 Poland= 0.410 or
            Sicily= 0.447 Poland= 0.553 or
            English= 0.218 Romania= 0.782 or
            Sicily= 0.347 English= 0.653 or
            Tuscan= 0.656 Lithuania= 0.344

            Since you expect a three-fold (at least) mix, I did a custom fit:

            Russian 0.0722 French 0.7901 Georgian 0.1376 or
            French 0.7398 Romania 0.1337 Adygei 0.1265 or
            English 0.6382 Romania 0.1843 Armenian 0.1775 or
            English 0.6192 Finland 0.0907 Cypriot 0.2901 or
            Irish 0.4643 Tuscan 0.4660 Adygei 0.0698 or
            Germany 0.3786 Spain 0.4744 Adygei 0.1470 or
            French 0.7230 Hungary 0.1335 Adygei 0.1434 or
            English 0.6107 Hungary 0.1702 Armenian 0.2191 or
            Irish 0.5236 Tuscan 0.3636 Armenian 0.1128 or
            Irish 0.4951 Tuscan 0.4309 Georgian 0.0741”

            I guess my "main" question is:

            Do you think that the Middle Eastern portion of my results are legit/recent - or do you think that is actually representing Southern Italian?

            If anyone wants to give their opinions on what my Primary ancestry is looking to be, or any input in general as far as whether or not it looks consistent with my paternal lines, I would great appreciate it. I'm new to this and reading up on how to interpret results, but it gets confusing with the plethora of info out there. Thanks so much!

            Comment


            • #7
              Amybeth - Thank you so much! The Ashkenazi Jewish is a definite possibility in my Hungarian relatives, I will start looking more into that to see what I can find. Thanks again!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by confetticake View Post
                Hi Everyone - I purchased the autosomal DNA kit from Ancestry.com, I then uploaded the raw data to FTDna, and I also submitted the raw data to Dr. McDonald for his analysis. A brief run down of what I was expecting:

                Maternal Grandmother supposedly of Scottish descent, but never confirmed as I have not been able to document back to the ancestor who first came to the US
                Maternal Granddather - unknown, my mother never knew him, was only told his last name was "Clark"

                Paternal Grandmother - 100% Hungarian, well documented, although her father was from Bohemia
                Paternal Grandfather - 100% Southern Italian, very well documented that both of his parents were from Campania region of Italy, documented to late 1700s.

                Let's just say I would not be surprised if there were a NPE (non paternal event) somewhere in my paternal line.

                AncestryDna results:

                49% British Isles
                20% Middle Eastern
                21% Eastern European
                10% Central European

                FTDna PF results:

                70.73% Orcadian
                29.27% Middle Eastern (Palestinian, Bedouin, Jewish)

                Dr. Doug McDonald: ...
                In his recent statement explaining why he is narrowing the assistance that he gives in DNA genealogy, Dr. McDonald endorsed the admix model of 23andMe. He had little good to say about either AncestryDNA or FT-DNA Population Finder.

                Look at your AncestryDNA and Population Finder results, I cannot reconcile the two. In my case, AncestryDNA finds that my admixture includes substantial Scandinavian and Finnish/Ural heritage. Many AncestryDNA customers have similar complaints and AncestryDNA's inflated estimates of Scandinavian heritage.

                An admix model is an analysis tool. Different tools give different results based on the same data. I strongly recommend that you post your data to the GEDmatch.com website. The site has several admix models available. Unfortunately, the site has been overwhelmed by recent increases in demand. It is not scheduled to accept new data until August 15.

                The site is a godsend for DNA genealogy. In the case of its admix models, my recommendation is to run your data through each model. The models with oracles calculate a genetic distance for their results. Choose the results of the model with the smallest genetic distance. To reiterate the point, many users fixate on a particular model. Others expect the model that works for a friend to work as well for them. This is not the case. Only the model results for your data are relevant to you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks MFWare! I am planning on uploading my raw data to GEDmatch as soon as they are taking submissions again. In the meantime I think I am going to have my father take the Y test so I can narrow it down to his paternal lineage which is what is prompting most of my questions at this point.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by confetticake View Post
                    In the meantime I think I am going to have my father take the Y test so I can narrow it down to his paternal lineage which is what is prompting most of my questions at this point.
                    Wait a bit to order his test. There's a sale coming... *should* be starting either today or tomorrow. Besides testing your father for Y-DNA, I would also strongly recommend testing both parents (if available) for Family Finder, if you haven't already had them do an autosomal test. You only have 50% of each parent's autosomal DNA. So rather than look at how their ancestry has been mixed within you, test each of them separately to see what their own autosomal results are.

                    Elise
                    Last edited by efgen; 27 June 2013, 01:26 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks for the heads up Elise! Will do!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Also - I think I already know the answer to this but just to be sure -

                        My current raw data from my Autosomal test does not indicate any Haplogroups, is that correct?

                        To know Haplogroups I would need to have my father take a Y-test or take the MTDna test myself right?

                        Thanks!
                        Last edited by confetticake; 27 June 2013, 02:01 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by confetticake View Post
                          Also - I think I already know the answer to this but just to be sure -

                          My current raw data from my Autosomal test does not indicate any Haplogroups, is that correct?

                          To know Haplogroups I would need to have my father take a Y-test or take the MTDna test myself right?

                          Thanks!
                          Haplogroups are only obtained through Y-DNA or mtDNA tests.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            confetticake(great name BTW!) Are you getting any Jewish matches in your Family Finder? That might be a clue to your Hungarian ancestors having Jewish ancestry.

                            I think it is possible that your ME results could possibly be a combination of your Southern Italian ancestry, and if your Hungarian ancestors had some Jewish heritage as well.

                            I too at times find more questions than answers. Happy hunting!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Táltos thank you so much for the reply! I am trying to determine if any of my matches are Jewish - is there a particular Haplotype I should be watching for? I am going to do some research on this and go through and see what I can determine. Thanks for the suggestion!

                              Comment

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