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  • #46
    mtDNA - Haplogroup W, Y DNA - M17, R1A

    Growing up India, Mom & Dad are from high class Brahmin Lineage. I was
    always told of our Aryan roots. As you all know, for thousands of years
    due to strict caste system, marriages between differnt castes were not
    permissible.

    I am really curios and would like to know more about how small population
    of early Europeans migrated to Northern & North-Western India,
    would really like some of experts on this forum to share their wisdom.

    Cheers
    Deven

    Comment


    • #47
      Deven_Josh:

      as you say, the received wisdom is that R1a people from the steppe moved in from the Asian steppes and subjugated the local population. More recently, a couple of papers have tried to make the point that migrations of R1a's (and other groups) may not have been limited to a unique event, but may have been going on for a longer period. Sengupta et al:
      http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...medid=16400607

      The paper is difficult to read, but there are nice tables with the frequencies of haplogroups in different castes. As expected, R1a are the largest groups among the higher castes.

      Female lineages instead appear to be for the most part autochtonous Indian, which means that the Aryans must have taken brides among the local population.
      If you are W, haplogroup W is not particularly frequent in India. You can check page 5 of the following, which has a tree with some W observations, to see if you fit in them:
      http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJH...ohaplogroup%22

      cacio

      Comment


      • #48
        Cacio - Thanks!

        Cacio,

        Thanks for taking time out and responding. I sincerely appreciate your
        insight. As I continue and proceed with my research, I may seek help
        again..

        Cheers
        Deven
        Y DNA - M17, R1A
        mtDNA - Haplogroup W

        Comment


        • #49
          mtDNA Haplogroup W in South Asia

          Deven_Josh:

          "The frequency peak of haplogroup W is 5% in the northwestern (Indian) states - Gujarat, Punjab and Kashmir. Elsewhere in India its frequency is very low (from 0 to 0.9%)" ... excerpt from:

          "Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in South and Southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans." Mait Metspalu et al, 2004

          The accompanying phylogeographic map of mtDNA W in the paper shows the highest density in Frontier Province of Pakistan.

          Your Brahmin lineage seems to support a scenario where your ancestors (YDNA: R1a & mtDNA: W) moved in from the Central Asian steppes and settled in Northern India. The coalescence time of mtDNA in India is 37,000 years before present. They may have taken local women, but the fact that W women are around in India, albeit at low frequencies, means that they never went out of demand .

          Another paper: "Where West Meets East: The Complex mtDNA Landscape of the Southwest and Central Asian Corridor", seems to indicate the highest W density amongst Sindhi women at 17%, which seems a bit high, though the R1a-heavy Rajputs in adjacent areas like Rajisthan seem to square off things.

          I thought this info might be useful.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Kaiser
            The coalescence time of mtDNA in India is 37,000 years before present.
            Please read: The coalescence time of mtDNA 'H' in India is 37,000 years before present. Error regretted.

            Comment


            • #51
              Hi Comutetor!

              Originally posted by NorthernLight
              I, too, just received my National Geographic results last night and found that I am a W.

              I noticed an earlier posting that had the same points of difference that I do:

              16292T, 16519C

              How rare is that? Is that a common profile? I'm sorry to ask what may be a basic question, but I'm new to all of this.

              On my mother's side, my family came from Finland in my grandmother's generation, and was there for as many generations as can be traced. My father's side is primarily from Ireland.
              I am also W292T,519C .I was born in Hungary .As you know Hungarian and Finnish belong to the same Uralic language group. However Magyars moved to what is now Hungary only in the 900s AC so we must come from groups that were established long before the arrival of the Uralic tribes .HOW FACINATING!!!
              I live in Argentina .Where do you live?

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by NorthernLight
                I, too, just received my National Geographic results last night and found that I am a W.

                I noticed an earlier posting that had the same points of difference that I do:

                16292T, 16519C

                How rare is that? Is that a common profile? I'm sorry to ask what may be a basic question, but I'm new to all of this.

                On my mother's side, my family came from Finland in my grandmother's generation, and was there for as many generations as can be traced. My father's side is primarily from Ireland.
                I have the same points of difference: W 16292T 16519C.
                We seem to be really scarce . I was born in Hungary,speak Magyar. As you know Magyar and Finnish belong to the same language family but the original Magyars moved from the Urals into present day Hungary only in the 900 AC We W´s are much older .
                Do you know when Finns moved from the Urals into present day Finland?
                Do you know of other matches?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Inj my old atlas...

                  According to a very old atlas of mine, which has a language map for Europe, Hungarian (Magyar) belongs to a small subgroup called Ugrian. The only two other languages in the group are Khanty-Ostiak and Mansi-Vogul. They are both located east of the Ural Mountins in Western Siberia. The larger Finnish sub-group are all located west of the Urals. Maybe the Magyars were driven westward by encroaching Huns/Mongols.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    New to all this

                    Hello, I just learned my results: I am a W. Here are my MTDNA markers:

                    16189C, 16223T, 16292T, 16519C, 73G, 189G, 195C, 204C, 207A, 263G, 315.1C and 709A.

                    I am of Norwegian descent on my mom's side. I have traced the Norwegian heritage as far back as a great-great-grandmother.

                    How do I begin to learn about all this? I have been searching the 'net for a couple of days and have learned that a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing! I notice I share 16223T, 16292T and 16519C with a lot of people here. What does that signify?

                    I was searching the 'net about haplogroup W (can't remember where) and found that I shared 12 markers (lacking just one marker) with Ws found only in Russia. Does my missing that one marker mean that my ancestors had nothing to do with Russia? Or does it signify a closeness?

                    I apologize if these questions are not appropriate but I hope someone can suggest reading material from me.

                    Julie F

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Oops!

                      I have no idea how to edit my post so I am replying to my own post. I meant to say that I shared 10 markers out of 11 with the group from Russia. I also discovered that I share 10 markers out of 11 with a W group from Poland.

                      Also, I meant to say I would appreciate recommendations of research material/literature FOR me, not FROM me.

                      Julie F.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Are you saying that you ONLY have one coding region mutation, and that is the one at 709 G to A?

                        Was this from FGS results at Family Tree DNA or where?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          To Clarify

                          BTW, Here's the link to which I refer:

                          http://www.thecid.com/w/subgroup5.htm

                          I perused the lists and I do not see anything covered beyond 263G.

                          So where my sequence through 263G is 16189C, 16223T, 16292T, 16519C, 73G, 189G, 195C, 204C, 207A, 263G, I match two of the groups ALMOST exactly except that I am missing marker 16295T for the Russian group and I am missing marker 16291T in the Poland group.

                          So I guess my basic question is, does missing one marker from each group remove me completely from any association with the group or does it give me a close association with it?

                          My results are not from Family Tree DNA.

                          Julie F

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            My results

                            Just come in for Haplogroup W from FamilyTreeDNA

                            HVR1: 16111T, 16184T, 16223T, 16292T, 16519C
                            HVR2: 73G, 189G, 195C, 204C, 207A, 262G, 315.1C

                            Known ancestry from Harwich, Essex, UK
                            Susannah born 1795

                            Liz

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