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  • Can someone tell me what all these results mean?

    Ok, I've tested my self at Ancestry and 23 and Me and uploaded my numbers to Mr. McDonald and to Gedmatch. I wish there was a way for genetic dummies like myself, to figure out which testing values are the best. *sigh* so I used many of the different tests and did wonder if I should also test using the African mode due to the fact that a small amount of African was found in my test results. Should I use a different model to test? What does all this mean? Thank you!

    *****************************
    genome_Judy_Riley_Full_20130303085450.txt
    Most likely fit is 95.2% (+- 5.9%) Europe (all Western Europe)
    and 4.8% (+- 5.9%) Europe (various subcontinents)
    which is 100% total Europe

    The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
    most likely at the top
    Spain= 0.176 English= 0.824 or
    Basque= 0.107 English= 0.893 or
    English= 0.929 Sardinia= 0.071 or
    Spain= 0.374 Irish= 0.626 or
    French= 0.367 English= 0.633 or
    English= 0.883 Tuscan= 0.117 or
    English= 0.854 Italian= 0.146

    This looks on the surface British with quite a bit of Continental European. The green
    spot on the map is very far east for such a profile; perhaps German or Polish is
    possible a part of the mix. But because of this I did a few custom fits and get

    English 0.5847 Irish 0.3423 Georgian 0.0730 or
    English 0.8893 Finland 0.0392 Adygei 0.0715 or
    English 0.7198 Irish 0.2066 Adygei 0.0735 or
    Irish 0.7370 Spain 0.1993 Georgian 0.0637 or
    Irish 0.6940 Spain 0.2443 Adygei 0.0618 or
    English 0.8993 Finland 0.0435 Georgian 0.0572 or
    English 0.5505 Irish 0.3809 Armenian 0.0686 or
    Irish 0.6768 French 0.2513 Georgian 0.0720
    as very good fits. So it is quite possible, though absolutely not proven,
    that you do have some 6% from the Caucasus area.

    For sure there is also 0.7% African of unknown sort.

    Doug McDonald

    *********************************
    Jtest Admixture Proportions


    This utility uses the Eurogenes Jtest model, created by Davidski (Polako). Questions and comments about this model
    should be directed to him at his Eurogenes Ancestry Project blog.

    Kit Number: M085450 Iteration: 825 Delta-Q: 6.577466e-08 Elapsed Time: 49.54 seconds


    Population
    SOUTH_BALTIC 10.04%
    EAST_EURO 10.89%
    NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 27.77%
    ATLANTIC 27.69%
    WEST_MED 12.36%
    ASHKENAZI 3.05%
    EAST_MED 1.87%
    WEST_ASIAN 5.27%
    MIDDLE_EASTERN -
    SOUTH_ASIAN 0.91%
    EAST_AFRICAN -
    EAST_ASIAN -
    SIBERIAN -
    WEST_AFRICAN 0.13%

    **********************************
    Kit M085450
    K = 20
    MinCount = 2

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 27.77
    2 ATLANTIC 27.69
    3 WEST_MED 12.36
    4 EAST_EURO 10.89
    5 SOUTH_BALTIC 10.04
    6 WEST_ASIAN 5.27
    7 ASHKENAZI 3.05
    8 EAST_MED 1.87
    9 SOUTH_ASIAN 0.91
    10 WEST_AFRICAN 0.13
    11 EAST_ASIAN 0.03

    **********************************
    Dodecad V3 Admixture Proportions

    The Dodecad V3 (dv3) admixture calculator is courtesy of Dienekes Pontikos and was developed as part of the Dodecad Ancestry Project; more information here.

    Kit Number: M085450 Iteration: 700 Delta-Q: 8.250936e-08 Elapsed Time: 39.90 seconds


    Population
    East_European 8.97%
    West_European 53.49%
    Mediterranean 26.09%
    Neo_African 0.34%
    West_Asian 8.20%
    South_Asian 1.54%
    Northeast_Asian 0.33%
    Southeast_Asian -
    East_African -
    Southwest_Asian -
    Northwest_African 0.92%
    Palaeo_African 0.10%
    *********************************

    World9 Admixture Proportions


    The World9 admixture calculator is courtesy of Dienekes Pontikos and was developed as part of the Dodecad Ancestry Project; more information here.

    Kit Number: M085450 Iteration: 750 Delta-Q: 5.273614e-08 Elapsed Time: 35.25 seconds


    Population
    Amerindian 0.89%
    East_Asian -
    African 0.42%
    Atlantic_Baltic 72.27%
    Australasian -
    Siberian 0.18%
    Caucasus_Gedrosia 11.36%
    Southern 13.38%
    South_Asian 1.45%
    ************************************

    MDLP World Oracle

    This program is based on 'Oracle v1' by Dienekes Pontikos. His original program was developed as part of the Dodecad Ancestry Project. More information on Dienekes' orignal program can be found here.

    Many thanks also to Zack Ajmal for helping us get this web version developed.

    Kit M085450
    K = 20
    MinCount = 2

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 South_and_West_European 46.37
    2 North_and_East_European 37.44
    3 Caucaus_Parsia 9.74
    4 Middle_East 3.77
    5 Arctic_Amerind 0.86
    6 Indian 0.75
    7 Sub_Saharian 0.47
    8 Melanesian 0.35
    9 Mesoamerican 0.22
    10 North_Asian 0.04
    ***************************************

    Jtest 4-Ancestors Oracle

    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    Revised: Dec 6, 2012

    14 components mode.
    Component threshold auto-set to 0.870%. Admix results below that value will not be considered.


    Kit Number: M085450

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 27.81
    2 ATLANTIC 27.73
    3 WEST_MED 12.38
    4 EAST_EURO 10.91
    5 SOUTH_BALTIC 10.06
    6 WEST_ASIAN 5.27
    7 ASHKENAZI 3.06
    8 EAST_MED 1.87
    9 SOUTH_ASIAN 0.91
    ***********************************

    Sorry for taking up so much space. I've actually got more but didn't want people to tear out their hair looking at it all.

    My 23 and Me shows me to be a K1, with these results (speculative):

    99.3% European

    Northern European
    54.2% British and Irish
    12.2% French and German
    4.1% Scandinavian
    0.0% Finnish
    26.2% Nonspecific Northern European

    Southern European
    0.8% Italian
    < 0.1% Iberian
    0.0% Sardinian
    0.0% Balkan
    0.4% Nonspecific Southern European
    < 0.1% Ashkenazi
    0.0% Eastern European
    1.3% Nonspecific European
    0.7% Sub-Saharan African
    0.0% Middle Eastern & North African
    0.0% Middle Eastern
    0.0% North African
    0.0% Nonspecific Middle Eastern & North African
    0.0% South Asian
    0.0% East Asian & Native American
    0.0% East Asian
    0.0% Native American
    0.0% Nonspecific East Asian & Native American
    0.0% Oceanian
    < 0.1% Unassigned


    I've also tested at Ancestry.com (as has my mother). My ancestry showed:

    Scandinavian 48%
    British Isles 35%
    Southern European 14%
    Uncertain 3%

    My mother's at Ancestry showed:

    Scandinavian 90%
    Persian/Turkish/ Caucasus 6%
    Uncertain 4%

    My father (deceased) tested at FTDNA in 05 and is R-M269; his mtDNA is H with an mt-H test at H4a.

    Obviously, at Ancestry one nearly always has Scandinavian in their history! I don't understand why everyone flocked to such a cold region!

    Anyway, I appreciate any and all help.

    Judy Riley

  • #2
    Hi Judy do you know what your recent ancestry is? I know looking at all these admixture tests can make your head spin. I would think you are mostly Northern European based on what 23&me indicates. Eurogenes also has North Central Euro as your top category. Though I know this is a pretty broad category. Dr. McDonald picked up the 0.7% African like 23&me.

    Are you German and or Polish? Is your green spot on the map in one of those countries?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: my results

      @1796 - Thank you. Have you ever been told family stories about how you have this much Indian and this much of something else, etc. etc, and that is what you grow up thinking you are. Well, my dad originally tested to find his maternal Am. Indian and his paternal Am. Indian -- based on family stories. It isn't there, at least I can't find it. In fact, FTDNA shows my dad has two matches on his male line that isn't our surname. His line at 37 markers is England and Netherlands. And his mother's line is mixed with so many different areas. She has some complete and nearly complete Jewish matches (not all large ones--anywhere from 14-2) in either Middle Eastern or European countries; the rest are non Jewish matches in other countries. Paper research on both paternal lines are sad. Dad's surname drops off after my ggg grandfather and on the maternal, another family member sketched out what she could find, but the search still doesn't tell us much about the maternal line as surnames are missing after the ggg grandmother.

      My mother's paternal line has been researched and has some Irish in it but there are also some interesting names that don't necessarily reflect an Irish thought (although, what do I know). Her paternal line is R1a1a and at 37 markers it's still basically England. Mom's maternal line is totally unknown to any of us, other than the names of the ggrandparents and they are Campbell (they were related). And they did a lot of intermarrying *sigh*, so tracing them has been difficult to say the least. That's why I had my mom do the Ancestry test so I could at least get a flavor of what is in her background. I'll likely need to test her either at FT or 23 and Me to get a little better understanding.

      Mr. McDonald noted that on the surface my numbers looked British with Continental Europe but that my green spot was a little too far East for that. When I looked at the map (wished I could have enlarged it) it looked to be in the area of Germany, Russia, Poland. Those areas would also work with my paternal grandmother's line as well as the small percentage that Ancestry picked up on my mother. However, Ancestry also picked up 14% of Southern European on me that 23 and Me didn't necessarily reflect and neither did the green spot. So, what is the real answer?

      I'm lactose intolerant, as my dad was, and I was told that isn't something common with Northern Europeans. I've also just recently discovered that I have Factor V Leiden and MTHFR as does my two daughters with one daughter getting two copies of the MTHFR. I was sent to a hematologist and I asked him if he could look at all this dna stuff and tell me about this family of mine that I don't seem to know. He said no but slightly indicated that interpretations could be subjective. Is he correct?

      As for what my recent ancestry is: I only have one family line that the researcher (my dad's mother's paternal line) feels confident it was mixed with Am. Indian (marriage to an Indian) with English, Welsh, Scot, and the latter three would be much further back. That's it!

      I'm not at all what I grew up thinking I was and at 59 it feels strange to have to look at DNA numbers to try to figure out where your ancestry lies.

      Sorry to be so wordy.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by mushypeas View Post
        Ok, I've tested my self at Ancestry and 23 and Me and uploaded my numbers to Mr. McDonald and to Gedmatch. I wish there was a way for genetic dummies like myself, to figure out which testing values are the best. ...

        Judy Riley
        If I understand you correctly, then you have run your genome through several of the admix models at GEDmatch.com. For those model that have connected oracles, you should also run the oracles. I have take the liberty to fit your genome to several models. Your second-best fit is calculated by the MDLP World-22 model. Its results are as follows:
        Code:
        [B]Population[/B]
        West-Asian	8.06%
        North-European-Mesolithic	4.03%
        Indo-Tibetan	0.14%
        Mesoamerican	0.30%
        Indian	0.36%
        Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic	34.81%
        Samoedic	1.37%
        Indo-Iranian	1.59%
        North-East-European	45.93%
        South-African	0.23%
        Sub-Saharian	0.28%
        Near_East	2.83%
        Austronesian	0.07%
        The MDLP World-22 model's oracle is summarized as follows:
        Code:
        Kit Number: M085450
        
        Admix Results (sorted):
        
        [B]#	Population	Percent[/B]
        1	North-East-European	46.58
        2	Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic	35.30
        3	West-Asian	8.17
        4	North-European-Mesolithic	4.08
        5	Near_East	2.87
        6	Indo-Iranian	1.61
        7	Samoedic	1.39
        
        --------------------------------
        
        Least-squares method.
        
        ....
        
        Using 4 populations approximation:
        1 CEU + CEU + Kosovar + Ukrainian-East @ 1.188
        2 CEU + CEU + Kosovar + Russian_South @ 1.221
        3 British + CEU + Kosovar + Russian_V @ 1.222
        4 German + Kosovar + Orcadian + Slovakian @ 1.223
        5 British + CEU + Kosovar + Russian_South @ 1.233
        6 British + Kosovar + Swedish + Ukrainian-West @ 1.243
        7 British + British + Kosovar + Russian_V @ 1.247
        8 British + CEU + Kosovar + Ukrainian-East @ 1.251
        9 CEU + Kosovar + Ukrainian-Center + Welsh @ 1.283
        10 British + Kosovar + Norwegian_V + Ukrainian-Center @ 1.288
        11 British + British + German + Macedonian @ 1.289
        12 German_V + Kosovar + Norwegian_V + Slovakian @ 1.292
        13 CEU_V + German + German-North + Kosovar @ 1.304
        14 German-South + Kosovar + Norwegian_V + Polish_V @ 1.321
        15 CEU + German-North + Kosovar + Slovakian @ 1.328
        16 CEU + Kosovar + Orcadian + Ukrainian-East @ 1.338
        17 German-North + German_V + Kosovar + Swedish @ 1.340
        18 Kosovar + Norwegian_V + Ukrainian-West + Welsh @ 1.340
        19 CEU + CEU + Kosovar + Russian_V @ 1.341
        20 Belarusian_V + German-South + Kosovar + Norwegian_V @ 1.343
        This is really an excellent fit but the Dodecad World9 model's fit is even better. Its results are as follows:
        Code:
        [B]Population[/B]	  
        Amerindian	0.89%
        African	0.42%
        Atlantic_Baltic	72.27%
        Siberian	0.18%
        Caucasus_Gedrosia	11.36%
        Southern	13.38%
        South_Asian	1.45%
        The Dodecad World9 oracle's results are summarized as follows:
        Code:
        Kit Number: M085450
        
        Admix Results (sorted):
        
        [B]#	Population	Percent[/B]
        1	Atlantic_Baltic	73.40
        2	Southern	13.59
        3	Caucasus_Gedrosia	11.54
        4	South_Asian	1.47
        
        --------------------------------
        
        Least-squares method.
        
        ....
        
        Using 4 populations approximation:
        1 French + Dutch + Dutch + CEU30 @ 0.855
        2 Dutch + Dutch + French + CEU30 @ 0.888
        3 Mixed_Germanic + Dutch + French + CEU30 @ 0.891
        4 Dutch + Dutch + French + Cornwall @ 0.893
        5 French + Dutch + Dutch + Dutch @ 0.906
        6 Mixed_Germanic + French + CEU30 + CEU30 @ 0.922
        7 Mixed_Germanic + Mixed_Germanic + French + Argyll @ 0.926
        8 French + Mixed_Germanic + Mixed_Germanic + Argyll @ 0.931
        9 British + Dutch + Dutch + French @ 0.936
        10 British + Mixed_Germanic + Dutch + French @ 0.945
        11 Mixed_Germanic + British_Isles + Dutch + French @ 0.946
        12 French + Mixed_Germanic + Dutch + Argyll @ 0.950
        13 Dutch + French + CEU30 + CEU30 @ 0.953
        14 Mixed_Germanic + Dutch + French + Cornwall @ 0.954
        15 Irish + Mixed_Germanic + Mixed_Germanic + French @ 0.963
        16 British + French + Dutch + Dutch @ 0.965
        17 French + Mixed_Germanic + Dutch + CEU30 @ 0.969
        18 French + Dutch + Dutch + Cornwall @ 0.969
        19 Mixed_Germanic + Mixed_Germanic + French + Orcadian @ 0.981
        20 Dutch + Dutch + French + Kent @ 0.983
        Quite frankly, the Dodecad World9 oracle displays the smallest genetic distance and, thus, the best fit of any admix model of any genome that I have ever seen.

        Both models show a tiny fraction of African ancestry. They disagree on American Indian ancestry. The MDLP World-22 model comes at Native American ancestry using a number of populations, but nulls out all but Mesoamerican. The Dodecad World9 model finds twice as much American Indian ancestry as African. However, both are small.

        How do these two models compare the the standard, speculative, and conservative levels of the 23andMe admix model?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: my results

          @MFWare -- Thank you. This is what the 23 and me standard view looks like:


          99.1%
          European

          Northern European
          26.3%
          British and Irish
          0.0%
          Scandinavian
          0.0%
          Finnish
          0.0%
          French and German
          62.7%
          Nonspecific Northern European

          Southern European
          0.0%
          Sardinian
          0.0%
          Italian
          0.0%
          Iberian
          0.0%
          Balkan
          0.0%
          Nonspecific Southern European
          0.0%
          Eastern European
          0.0%
          Ashkenazi
          10.1%
          Nonspecific European
          0.6%
          Sub-Saharan African
          0.0%
          Middle Eastern & North African
          0.0%
          Middle Eastern
          0.0%
          North African
          0.0%
          Nonspecific Middle Eastern & North African
          0.0%
          South Asian
          0.0%
          East Asian & Native American
          0.0%
          East Asian
          0.0%
          Native American
          0.0%
          Nonspecific East Asian & Native American
          0.0%
          Oceanian
          0.3%
          Unassigned
          100%
          Judy Riley



          And this is what the conservative view looks like:


          98.1%
          European

          Northern European
          1.6%
          British and Irish
          0.0%
          Scandinavian
          0.0%
          Finnish
          0.0%
          French and German
          63.8%
          Nonspecific Northern European

          Southern European
          0.0%
          Sardinian
          0.0%
          Italian
          0.0%
          Iberian
          0.0%
          Balkan
          0.0%
          Nonspecific Southern European
          0.0%
          Eastern European
          0.0%
          Ashkenazi
          32.7%
          Nonspecific European
          0.5%
          Sub-Saharan African
          0.0%
          Middle Eastern & North African
          0.0%
          Middle Eastern
          0.0%
          North African
          0.0%
          Nonspecific Middle Eastern & North African
          0.0%
          South Asian
          0.0%
          East Asian & Native American
          0.0%
          East Asian
          0.0%
          Native American
          0.0%
          Nonspecific East Asian & Native American
          0.0%
          Oceanian
          1.4%
          Unassigned
          100%
          Judy Riley


          While I readily admit my ignorance regarding all this, to simply look at the conservative and standard view of my report --- they don't appear to work as well as the speculative does. Do you see the same thing (my speculative is posted in the earlier postings)? As for whether the conservative or standard working with the models you ran -- I don't think they do but do think the speculative comes a bit closer.

          My next question is -- once one finds a model type that appears to work -- what does that equate to in regards to ethnicity? I'm currently waiting on a FGS report on my dad's female cousin (same maternal line as his mother). It is hoped that her report will tell what is more recent in my paternal grandmother's dna. As I said, she has lots of matches but some of the middle eastern countries she matched fully or close to fully with some Jewish notations. My dad always thought his maternal grandmother was Am. Indian but again, can't find anything to substantiate that unless she had gotten some autosomally herself. Since my dad is no longer alive and I'm depending on his cousin's dna sample to do any additional testing.

          Thank you for your help.

          Judy
          Last edited by mushypeas; 18 March 2013, 10:43 AM. Reason: need to add more thought

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Judy,
            Your welcome, and sorry for my slow response. You mention that Germany, Poland, Russia could work with your paternal grandmother's line. Perhaps you inherited a larger portion of her DNA from your father than say from your father's father line. At least Dr. McDonald seemed to try to give you a little more explanation, and he reports that he did a custom fit for your report. For me he just gave 4 lines of only two groups, and then said this looks Central European....(whatever dot dot dot is supposed to mean there) LOL. For my mom he said "she looks too far east for what I say she is, but it is Okay as this happens sometimes." Her green dot covers the countries just above Albania so I really don't find it to be too odd.

            Native American ancestry is hard to find in the DNA. Dr. McDonald is the person who is known to be good at finding it. I have read him stating though that there is still not enough Native American samples. So this could account for him not detecting it. I have also read too that the African result might point toward some NA. As these two groups were known to have mixed early on in Colonial times. The NA was "washed away" so to speak because of recombination. The African result could have been an ancestor who once showed some NA as well as the African way back in time. Dr. McDonald acknowledged the small 0.7% like 23&me for you. So I would think that means something if he pointed it out to you. And I give my result as an example again, as he did not seem to feel the need to do any custom fit for myself. So he must have thought that was important to relay that information to you. Once again though it is hard to say for sure unless you can find a paper trail indicating this.

            I would also try to look at your chromosome painting from him and see if you notice any pattern with the matches. For example, even though he gave me a very generic report, I was able to look at that painting and compare to my matches. I have some chromosomes with large swaths of Middle Eastern, he did not bother to mention them. All my Jewish matches that I have here match me on my chromosome 7. My Dr. McD painting has my chromosome 7 with large swaths of Middle Eastern and they are in the same spots as my Jewish matches. Interesting enough my mother's painting from him has Middle Eastern on it(more than my painting), but none on Chromosome 7. She tested at 23&me, and the only time I can see any Jewish matches for her is to set the Ancestry Finder to the lowest settings, and it is a very small amount. I think like 0.0-0.4%. So I don't think she has any Jewish ancestry to take it to this lowest settings and only come up with that number. I sure wish my father was alive to have taken the test to compare.

            So this might be a useful exercise for you to learn more about your ancestry. I am not sure if anyone else has used his chromosome painting in this way. I don't think in my case it is any coincidence for that to show up like that with chromosome 7.

            I have never really fully explored the correlation of medical conditions and genetics. Though I know they are there. When I was pregnant, my OB-GYN had me tested for beta-thalassemia. He tested for this because I have ancestry form Southern Italy. This condition is prevalent among Mediterranean peoples. I have read somewhere too, that the lactose intolerance is not supposed to be common to Northern Europeans.

            I think MFWare's assessment of your DNA on Gedmatch is good. For myself, I really like the Dodecad K7 best. I hope all this is helpful for you to have a better understanding of your ancestry.
            Last edited by Táltos; 18 March 2013, 11:29 AM. Reason: added numbers

            Comment


            • #7
              Quick note Judy. I like speculative best for my mom too. Here she has the highest percentage for German and French (they lump them together). Anyway she has known German on her maternal side. I also dislike the conservative mode as she has 6.0% Unassigned in this mode. I think that is too much to be unaccounted for.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: my results

                @1796 -- Thank you for your help! I just went back to look at the Chromosome painting. I do have a lot of Europe; some middle east a lot of 'too little info'; some africa and some s. asia. In his cluster group, one has me too much in the center of things with Jewish groups close by but not exactly within the so called square. However, in his custom report he has this place called Adygei listed and it's about as far away as it gets from my spot! I don't understand.

                My 23 and Me shows any Ashkenazie Jewry at being declared as 0.0%-2.3% with 3 matches of K1a1b1a and 1 match of N1b2. My paternal grandmother had more toward the Sephardim and 23 doesn't test for that. Mr. McD said that it was very difficult to determine small amounts of Sephardic Jewry. 23 says I don't have any Ashkenazie Jewry in their thinking because I don't match people with four grandparents. I only match with two or three grandparents. Is that true?

                I spent some time reading some of the reports that Mr. Dienekes (sp?) wrote and he has some thoughts regarding the reporting of African DNA. If I remember, I think he indicated that it may be an over reporting and I forget what he said he would do to try to determine whether it was truly there or not.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mushypeas View Post
                  @MFWare -- Thank you. This is what the 23 and me standard view looks like:

                  ...

                  While I readily admit my ignorance regarding all this, to simply look at the conservative and standard view of my report --- they don't appear to work as well as the speculative does. Do you see the same thing (my speculative is posted in the earlier postings)? As for whether the conservative or standard working with the models you ran -- I don't think they do but do think the speculative comes a bit closer.

                  My next question is -- once one finds a model type that appears to work -- what does that equate to in regards to ethnicity? I'm currently waiting on a FGS report on my dad's female cousin (same maternal line as his mother). It is hoped that her report will tell what is more recent in my paternal grandmother's dna. As I said, she has lots of matches but some of the middle eastern countries she matched fully or close to fully with some Jewish notations. My dad always thought his maternal grandmother was Am. Indian but again, can't find anything to substantiate that unless she had gotten some autosomally herself. Since my dad is no longer alive and I'm depending on his cousin's dna sample to do any additional testing.

                  Thank you for your help.

                  Judy
                  It is most interesting that neither 23andMe Standard nor Conservative gives any hint of either African or Asian/Native American in your admixture. Your best fit admix model at GEDmatch.com shows both. This may say more about 23andMe's admix models than it says about your ancestry.

                  That said, I strongly caution against "model shopping." I use the Genetic Distance of the admix model's oracle to determine the quality of the fit. The smaller the Genetic Distance, the better the fit. Unfortunately, not all of GEdmatch.com's admix models include oracles. Even less fortunate is the fact that none of the commercial admix models include an oracle or any other fit-quality metric.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: my results

                    @MFWare -- Thank you! Ok, I think I understand what you are saying about the models.

                    So, after looking at the three you've seen as a best fit, what do those regions mean in regards to ethnicity? Anything that has Am. Indian is pretty self explanatory, and some to most African areas, but these other regions -- what do they mean? How do I learn to look at those regions and see what ethnicities they represent and how that paints a picture of what my genetic family might have looked like?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mushypeas View Post
                      @1796 -- Thank you for your help! I just went back to look at the Chromosome painting. I do have a lot of Europe; some middle east a lot of 'too little info'; some africa and some s. asia. In his cluster group, one has me too much in the center of things with Jewish groups close by but not exactly within the so called square. However, in his custom report he has this place called Adygei listed and it's about as far away as it gets from my spot! I don't understand.

                      My 23 and Me shows any Ashkenazie Jewry at being declared as 0.0%-2.3% with 3 matches of K1a1b1a and 1 match of N1b2. My paternal grandmother had more toward the Sephardim and 23 doesn't test for that. Mr. McD said that it was very difficult to determine small amounts of Sephardic Jewry. 23 says I don't have any Ashkenazie Jewry in their thinking because I don't match people with four grandparents. I only match with two or three grandparents. Is that true?

                      I spent some time reading some of the reports that Mr. Dienekes (sp?) wrote and he has some thoughts regarding the reporting of African DNA. If I remember, I think he indicated that it may be an over reporting and I forget what he said he would do to try to determine whether it was truly there or not.
                      Your welcome. The Adygei are from the Caucasus. Dr. McD indicated that you may have up to 6% of this region. This area is considered Middle Eastern. And could account for the Middle East on your chromosome painting. It is interesting if he thinks that German or Polish is part of the mix that he would then add more populations from the Caucasus area to give you a better fit. I don't recall if I ever saw someone with Polish ancestry have an analysis by him.

                      I'm not sure how to answer about your scatter plot. I always consider what is in the crosshair to be significant. But when I try to look at it is it supposed to mean is my crosshair between the two groups that he used as a fit? I don't think that it looks so perfect to that.

                      To try and answer the 4 grandparent business with Ancestry Finder. I do really like Ancestry Finder BTW. They do make a disclaimer that even though your match has 4 grandparents from the same country they cannot say for sure that all those lines are truly from a country for several hundreds of years. By putting all the settings down to one grandparent mode allows you to see the most. Keep in mind I don't think the Declared Ashkenazi is actually represented by a country, just whether they are declaring Ashkenazi ancestry for that grandparent.

                      The bottom line is unless you have tested several members of your family, and can see which branch of the specific match's family you match on, you can't rule in or out which side you are really matching this match on. So you could be matching them on the Ashkenazi side. I do know someone on the forum there said that was the way to look for Ashkenazi ancestry. Is to put the cm all the way down to lowest setting, check the Declared Ashkenazi box, and to also check the box to include matches from places like the US, Australia and so forth. At least your percentage is definitely higher than my mom's.
                      Last edited by Táltos; 19 March 2013, 12:00 AM. Reason: typos

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                      • #12
                        What I meant to write was I don't remember if I saw how Dr. McDonald reads someone who has just Polish ancestry. Not someone who is a mix with some Polish. Like would he normally see the Caucasus region in someone who is all Polish.

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                        • #13
                          Re: my results

                          Hi 1796! So this place called Adygei is part of the Middle Eastern group. I had never heard of this place until Mr. McD. I did look it up but honestly, I still came away not knowing how this fit into my picture. Like I told MFWare, I want to know what these locations mean to me in terms of ethnicities; how they paint the best picture that sorta represents what my genetic family might look like.

                          Yeah, this person named MiTuCents did a survey asking people to give information about their Ashkenazie matches. Those of us who chose to participate were told to go into the advanced settings and select the lowest number of cM (which was 5 I believe) and the lowest setting for grandparents (which was 1+) and then select show Ashkenazie and those for the U.S., etc., etc. I did. We were also told to write the amount for non declared as well as declared and to note how many k1ab1a matches we had. My non-declared was around the 50% and my declared was the the number I gave. This person named MiTuCents said I didn't have any because he felt I only matched non Ash grandparents. Someone else noted that maybe not everyone declared their Jewish ancestry and alone could skew things. I don't know. In your estimations do my other results prove them correct? I do agree that one likely needs more family to test to get a better picture. I wish I could upload my dad's results to their system so that his dna could help the factoring part but I don't see anything that gives any opportunity to do something like that. That means I have to try talking my younger brother into helping. . .

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                          • #14
                            I'm also baffled by all the various utilities. Each one tells you a bit different, some have groups that others don't. Generally however they say I'm mostly NW European, which I already knew, and then some middle-eastern, but I see that can be anywhere from the Caucusus to Iran or to what we usually refer to as the middle-east. I have everything else in small amounts from African, North American, Siberian, East Asian, Ashkenazi Jewish, etc etc. and many others...
                            F209848 - Mother is NW Europe and possibly some Native American, Father was Ukrainian. Surprisingly, there's rarely if ever any Ukrainian or Polish showing up in these utilities.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by cokie View Post
                              I'm also baffled by all the various utilities. Each one tells you a bit different, some have groups that others don't. Generally however they say I'm mostly NW European, which I already knew, and then some middle-eastern, but I see that can be anywhere from the Caucusus to Iran or to what we usually refer to as the middle-east. I have everything else in small amounts from African, North American, Siberian, East Asian, Ashkenazi Jewish, etc etc. and many others...
                              F209848 - Mother is NW Europe and possibly some Native American, Father was Ukrainian. Surprisingly, there's rarely if ever any Ukrainian or Polish showing up in these utilities.
                              Don't make the make of believing that an admix model can give you the street addresses of each of your great great grandparents. At their best, they give you the best fit admixture of genetic populations that are similar to your own. In your case, your best fit is given by the Dodecad V3 model:
                              Code:
                              [B]Population	[/B]  
                              East_European	18.88%
                              West_European	45.50%
                              Mediterranean	21.76%
                              West_Asian	9.45%
                              South_Asian	0.20%
                              Southeast_Asian	0.25%
                              East_African	0.44%
                              Southwest_Asian	3.29%
                              Northwest_African	0.22%
                              The Dodecad V3 oracle implies that this is a very close match to your genome:
                              Code:
                              Kit Number: F209848
                              
                              Admix Results (sorted):
                              
                              [B]#	Population	Percent[/B]
                              1	West_European	46.02
                              2	Mediterranean	22.01
                              3	East_European	19.09
                              4	West_Asian	9.56
                              5	Southwest_Asian	3.33
                              
                              --------------------------------
                              
                              Least-squares method.
                              
                              ....
                              
                              Using 4 populations approximation:
                              1 Lithuanians + Mixed_Germanic + Mixed_Germanic + Tuscan @ 0.784
                              2 Lithuanian + Mixed_Germanic + Mixed_Germanic + Tuscan @ 0.821
                              3 Dutch + Lithuanian + Mixed_Germanic + Tuscan @ 0.919
                              4 Dutch + Lithuanian + Mixed_Germanic + TSI @ 0.971
                              5 Lithuanian + Mixed_Germanic + Mixed_Germanic + TSI @ 0.995
                              6 Lithuanians + Mixed_Germanic + Mixed_Germanic + Tuscan @ 1.011
                              7 Dutch + Lithuanian + Mixed_Germanic + Tuscan @ 1.035
                              8 Cornwall + Lithuanian + Norwegian + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 1.052
                              9 Lithuanians + Mixed_Germanic + Mixed_Germanic + TSI @ 1.070
                              10 Irish + Lithuanians + S_Italian_Sicilian + Swedish @ 1.074
                              11 British_Isles + Lithuanians + Norwegian + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 1.090
                              12 Irish + Lithuanian + Norwegian + S_Italian @ 1.100
                              13 Belorussian + Mixed_Germanic + Swedish + TSI @ 1.102
                              14 Irish + Lithuanian + Norwegian + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 1.124
                              15 Irish + Lithuanians + Norwegian + S_Italian @ 1.138
                              16 Irish + Lithuanians + Norwegian + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 1.141
                              17 Lithuanian + Mixed_Germanic + Mixed_Germanic + Tuscan @ 1.176
                              18 Cornwall + Lithuanians + Norwegian + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 1.179
                              19 Kent + Lithuanian + Mixed_Germanic + Tuscan @ 1.194
                              20 Kent + Lithuanian + Mixed_Germanic + Tuscan @ 1.201
                              To fully understand what the model is saying to you, you should research the each population and its history. Try to reconcile these populations with your ancestry as you understand it from your documentation and oral history.

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