Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Geni.com now marketing FTDNA tests

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by djknox View Post
    If I understood your complaints correctly, there were 2: first, you don't like FTDNA giving testing discounts via a collaberative business partner... and second, you don't like some of your inputed data being "hi-jacked" at Geni.com. In response to the first, I don't know if Geni.com is the right partner, but it IS a smart move to get FTDNA into genealogical networking. In response to the second, I don't quite "get" what you are warning about? That some genealogical data loaded has been hijacked? Well, let's examine that. In my opinion, genealogical data is not privately owned... it is substantially, if not completely, public. I am sure some would disagree... and they likely have some reasonable arguments to do so. But the reality is that all of this data is out there somewhere... you don't own the rights to who your great great grandparents names are. It is also my opinion that even IF you do own such data, I don't "get" why you need to guard it so fervently? In this screwed up world of consumerism, I think we all must pick our battles, and complaining that genealogical data that you entered on a website could not be entirely deleted... is not one of those battles... especially when geni.com more than likely (I have not checked) warned you of that is some fine print that no one reads.

    If you don't like how they "trapped" you... ok - BUT you should use your energy to fight Banks, Traffic Police, HMOs & Insurance companies first before worring about your hi-jacked tree data.

    DISCLAIMER: THE ABOVE IS JUST AN OPINION OF ONE ABNOXIOUS FTDNA CUSTOMER AND DOES NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THE BELIEFS OF FTDNA. lol
    Thanks for getting me back on topic. I will address each of the two complaints noted above:

    1. I would love to see FTDNA collaborate with genealogy business partners. I'm just not thrilled by their choice of partners at this time. I realize there aren't that many to choose which is why I stated my original post was probably over the top. My frustration with FTDNA and with geni was coloring my feelings. I don't like that geni and myheritage don't have telephone support. Again, this was ancestry in the beginning. Ancestry has dealt with this problem, and although I'm sure that some still have complaints, their customer service is much better than it used to be.

    I'm also wondering about encouraging more people to test when there are such major bugs in the system right now. From what I have read, there are people who have been waiting on a transfer from 23andme since August. New customers, I believe, are always more susceptible to assuming that everything is bad with a company due to a first bad experience (an example is my experience with geni). Older customers who have invested more in a company and who have seen good with the bad, I think, are more likely to remain loyal and deal with the bugs as they come.

    Which brings up another point: customer loyalty. Again, when a company is charging a premium price, some customers may stay with that company due to company loyalty and prior investment. Treat those customers well or you will lose them. Offer new customers a much better deal than you ever offered your loyal customers and you may have problems. Although in this case, all older customers love to see new customers as they help increase our success and enjoyment of the product/service. Again, my frustration was coloring my feelings in my original post. This is a good thing, as long as new customers don't get a bad taste in their mouth either through geni or other partners or through FTDNA.

    2. My problems with Geni: In an earlier post, you stated that I stated that I joined geni just to buy a test at a reduced price. I joined geni to see what the discounted price was. After joining, I thought that the site was interesting. "Let me see what this is all about, I thought." As I stated earlier, I should have done my homework first. Again, my complaints were posted for potential unwary customers like myself.

    My main problem with geni's method of sharing is this: Once you build out your tree to a certain point (when it connects to the "big tree") you are in danger of losing control of your own tree. A manager, or multiple managers, can take over that section of your tree, and you will no longer be able to edit, delete, etc, except by asking the new managers to do so. This was not made clear up front, in my humble opinion. I read where customers complained that they could not correct errors in their own tree due to this other managers.

    The privacy issue can be dealt with, according to some information I read, by keeping your tree at geni limited to only about 4 generations. That way, it never reaches the "big tree" and you can control whether your tree is available through public google searches. I realize that most information is available through online searches (I use online obituaries a lot to try to find parents of my dna matches). However, most relatives are not going to be happy that you posted a tree with their birthdates, email addresses, children, parents, etc. that is now online in one place and available to public google searches.

    I still have not managed to cancel my trial account with geni. If you happen to try out the free trial, make sure you start the cancellation process early during the 14 days. I did receive a help ticket email stating that the team was looking into my request to cancel my trial immediately. That, to me, is lousy customer service, and I don't want to see FTDNA lumped in with such terrible customer service.

    Emy

    Comment


    • #32
      Lklundin - thanks a lot. I will try to find a way to use 'recode'. My experience as of today - I created my tree at ancestry.com the names with Cyrillic, used the ancestry.com button create GEDCOM, export the gedcom file. The GEDCOM replaced all Cyrillic with question marks - I could not export my tree as GEDCOM file. I posted a question on the community page and there was a comment that GEDCOM software does not support Cyrillic encoding. (I will have to live with it).

      The thing that bothers me a lot is :
      As I shared earlier a serious genealogical researcher was denied access to the trees he uploaded on the grounds that they (the names) are in Cyrillic. Geni.com insisted that they should be in Latin. He refused and Geni.com denied him access to "his" trees. He can not make any updates, addition of people with his new findings. etc.
      Here I see a discriminatory behavior from Geni.com. All the previous posts were targeting that Geni.com has interest in more users creating trees and then using these trees to boast a large database.
      In the case stated above Geni.com insisted on Latin, because somewhere somebody (from the company) made a conclusion that a tree in Cyrillic is useless and does not have the value as it would have in Latin.

      The behavior of Geni.com in this case is unacceptable business practice. It can not discriminate between users based on language and can not cut off access. This is another area where Geni.com should improve the business practices, apart from the ones discussed by other members. ( all this in the context of FTDNA business strategy to have a genealogical site partner to boost sale of tests)

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Pillar_of_fire View Post
        The behavior of Geni.com in this case is unacceptable business practice.
        In my mind, the best thing one can do about this is to accept:
        1) You can hardly change the way Geni does business,
        2) The data you upload to their site is out of your control[*]

        With that in mind, suggest to your Russian collaborator to create a new GEDCOM with latin letters (using recode or whatever works), cancel the current subscription and start a new one, using the "latinized" GEDCOM.

        Or perhaps find a company with a better business practice and take your money there.

        Good luck.
        [*] Copyright law in the USA is completely subverted by corporations like Disney and Sony which has lead to laws like the DMCA. You might turn the tables on Geni and file a DMCA take-down notice, demanding that they remove your data from their site. But you want to lawyer up for that. Although EFF.org is overburdened, they might take an interest in such an approach.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by emyr View Post
          Thanks for getting me back on topic. I will address each of the two complaints noted above:

          1. I would love to see FTDNA collaborate with genealogy business partners. I'm just not thrilled by their choice of partners at this time. I realize there aren't that many to choose which is why I stated my original post was probably over the top. My frustration with FTDNA and with geni was coloring my feelings. I don't like that geni and myheritage don't have telephone support. Again, this was ancestry in the beginning. Ancestry has dealt with this problem, and although I'm sure that some still have complaints, their customer service is much better than it used to be.

          I'm also wondering about encouraging more people to test when there are such major bugs in the system right now. From what I have read, there are people who have been waiting on a transfer from 23andme since August. New customers, I believe, are always more susceptible to assuming that everything is bad with a company due to a first bad experience (an example is my experience with geni). Older customers who have invested more in a company and who have seen good with the bad, I think, are more likely to remain loyal and deal with the bugs as they come.

          Which brings up another point: customer loyalty. Again, when a company is charging a premium price, some customers may stay with that company due to company loyalty and prior investment. Treat those customers well or you will lose them. Offer new customers a much better deal than you ever offered your loyal customers and you may have problems. Although in this case, all older customers love to see new customers as they help increase our success and enjoyment of the product/service. Again, my frustration was coloring my feelings in my original post. This is a good thing, as long as new customers don't get a bad taste in their mouth either through geni or other partners or through FTDNA.

          2. My problems with Geni: In an earlier post, you stated that I stated that I joined geni just to buy a test at a reduced price. I joined geni to see what the discounted price was. After joining, I thought that the site was interesting. "Let me see what this is all about, I thought." As I stated earlier, I should have done my homework first. Again, my complaints were posted for potential unwary customers like myself.

          My main problem with geni's method of sharing is this: Once you build out your tree to a certain point (when it connects to the "big tree") you are in danger of losing control of your own tree. A manager, or multiple managers, can take over that section of your tree, and you will no longer be able to edit, delete, etc, except by asking the new managers to do so. This was not made clear up front, in my humble opinion. I read where customers complained that they could not correct errors in their own tree due to this other managers.

          The privacy issue can be dealt with, according to some information I read, by keeping your tree at geni limited to only about 4 generations. That way, it never reaches the "big tree" and you can control whether your tree is available through public google searches. I realize that most information is available through online searches (I use online obituaries a lot to try to find parents of my dna matches). However, most relatives are not going to be happy that you posted a tree with their birthdates, email addresses, children, parents, etc. that is now online in one place and available to public google searches.

          I still have not managed to cancel my trial account with geni. If you happen to try out the free trial, make sure you start the cancellation process early during the 14 days. I did receive a help ticket email stating that the team was looking into my request to cancel my trial immediately. That, to me, is lousy customer service, and I don't want to see FTDNA lumped in with such terrible customer service.

          Emy
          Emy we all have the right to be frustrated over what we will. I think your point is well made that if one is looking for a private, self-contained online tree, geni.com is not the right option. In fact, one of the strengths of Ancestry.com is that it 99% synchronizes with FamilyTreeMaker... so one can maintain their own tree offline.

          I view the entire online genealogy thing as a public exercise which through brute force the correct data and connections eventually rise to the forefront. In other words, I do believe that most information will eventually converge rather than diverge. However, some of the trees at ancestry are so bad, they do test my convictions. There are a few innovative ways for this convergence to occur - Ancestry's approach is individualistic, Geni or OneGreatFamily is more collaberative. I think both offer interesting angles and I think anyone keen on their research should be posting their tree at mulitple sites in order to maximize networking. The collaberative ones, must, by simple logic, wean authority away from the individual. In my opinion, at a site like Geni.com, it really ISN'T your tree... its your data that you have volunteered to a bigger project.

          Anyway, if you don't like that, I suppose you have now learned to pay closer attention... but I don't think there as been any great harm to you done...albeit that's only my opinion.

          As for FTDNA, like many small companies, its the chicken or the egg delema in the face of economies of scale. Does one invest and hope to increase revenue, or does one invest as a result of increased revenue? I think FTDNA is trying to overcome the economies of scale problem - they definitely need better analysis and networking tools... but to pay for them, the orders need to keep coming in.

          Now to get to a point that bothers me with ALL these software trees: there is definitely a lack of useful ways to integrate proven relationships by DNA into one's tree. What I seek, and cannot seem to get, is for every relationship in my tree to have some sort of confidence code, based on the strength of records, dna testing etc. I want to identify which of my lines are rock solid, which are probably correct, and which are speculative. I am hoping that online trees like Ancestry will work this into a new build.

          Comment


          • #35
            I think its great that the 7 million members that uses Geni now will benefit from MyHeritage┬┤s deal with FTDNA.

            MyHeritage have over 65 million members. Very global.

            For the moment MyHeritage say that they will let Geni continue to be separated from MyHeritage. I guess not forever...

            As you may know, Myheritage did buy Geni in november 2012. ( read article in Wall Street Journal )

            My personal experience with Geni is not so good. I used a very special and explicit e-mail address when registering there and have since received a lot of external spam even if this address was never published on the Geni site.
            Also when trying to contact their support it was never easy.

            So I would not recommend Geni to my friends, but MyHeritage I think are way better and would recommend them instead.

            And the current special low price on DNA-tests from FTDNA are of course available at MyHeritage also.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by djknox View Post

              Now to get to a point that bothers me with ALL these software trees: there is definitely a lack of useful ways to integrate proven relationships by DNA into one's tree. What I seek, and cannot seem to get, is for every relationship in my tree to have some sort of confidence code, based on the strength of records, dna testing etc. I want to identify which of my lines are rock solid, which are probably correct, and which are speculative. I am hoping that online trees like Ancestry will work this into a new build.
              I would love to see this! My brother tested at Ancestry, and I really do like the smart matching. I just don't know what to do with the results. Some of our lines that are confirmed through paper records now have also been confirmed with dna. I guess we can add a note that states that dna has confirmed the relationship, but I would like something more.

              I also think it is helpful to add speculative data to our trees in order to help research our dna matches. I would really love an easy way to note these lines as speculative.

              I'm hopeful that one day soon these types of tools will be available. In the meantime, I guess we make do with what we have!

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by emyr View Post
                I would love to see this! My brother tested at Ancestry, and I really do like the smart matching. I just don't know what to do with the results. Some of our lines that are confirmed through paper records now have also been confirmed with dna. I guess we can add a note that states that dna has confirmed the relationship, but I would like something more.

                I also think it is helpful to add speculative data to our trees in order to help research our dna matches. I would really love an easy way to note these lines as speculative.

                I'm hopeful that one day soon these types of tools will be available. In the meantime, I guess we make do with what we have!
                I know I am preaching to the choir, but I would like to I would like to emphasize that a 1 to 1 genetic match with a distant cousin, by itself, doesn't validate a paper trail connection. This is comment is not directed
                at emyr because she is correct. Matches do tend to "confirm" relationships in the same manner as other forms of circumstantial evidence

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by djknox View Post

                  .........................

                  Now to get to a point that bothers me with ALL these software trees: there is definitely a lack of useful ways to integrate proven relationships by DNA into one's tree. What I seek, and cannot seem to get, is for every relationship in my tree to have some sort of confidence code, based on the strength of records, dna testing etc. I want to identify which of my lines are rock solid, which are probably correct, and which are speculative. I am hoping that online trees like Ancestry will work this into a new build.
                  This is an option I would like to see also (not so much the DNA aspect of confirmation). For me at Ancestry my trees are works in progess, some of it correct and some just speculation. I have labelled my working trees as Unconfirmed and as a rule make a note on person birth facts if person is unconfirmed. For my own reference with in the tree, lines that I know are 100% correct I have Capitalized the names. But it would be nice if software allowed you to input if line is speculative or confirmed instead of inserting comments which most often get over looked by other users.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Well I guess i'm not alone then. Capitalizing is a bandage solution to having a very clear illustration of each connection's strength.

                    I sent 2 years ago a suggestion to Ancestry.com... suggesting the following:

                    Air Tight
                    Well substantiated
                    Likely
                    Plausible
                    Speculative

                    and then use a color code in the display of the tree to indicate each connection. I suggested that the tool should be able to be turned on or off, and that special decisions about inheritance of relationships from other trees would need to be considered.

                    Imagine looking at your tree, and each line that connects one to their parents has a color based on your own confidence in the relationship!

                    Then, we one is viewing other trees, they too can see what confident the tree owner has in a particular relationship.

                    This would drive the field of genealogy to better define relationship research and make clearer different thresholds of confidence. Ancestry could provide an outline indicating the type of data suggested for users to follow in assigning their strength indicator.

                    Anyway, nothing has been done and of course no mention of what could be coming.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by prairielad View Post
                      But it would be nice if software allowed you to input if line is speculative or confirmed instead of inserting comments which most often get over looked by other users.
                      I have at least two versions of my tree. The version that other users can see is the version with no speculative links at all, everything is backed up by real evidence. I also have a version with speculative links, carefully noted as such. I'll also create smaller trees when investigating a new branch to test theories. It's rare that these get grafted on to the main tree.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X