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R1a1 - Hindu Brahmins, Slavs and Ashkenazi Levites

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  • #31
    bob_chasm: The breakdown of R1a1 by various ethno-cultural groups in India and Pakistan is as follows (Sengupta et al, 2005):

    INDIA
    - West Bengal Brahmins (Upper Caste Hindus):72%
    - Konkanasth Brahmins (Upper Caste Hindus): 63%
    - Muslims (No caste affinities): 58%
    - Tanti (Low Caste Hindus): 41%
    - Uttar Pradesh (UP) Brahmins (Upper Caste Hindus): 36%
    - Rajput (Upper Caste Hindus): 31%

    PAKISTAN
    - Sindhi: 52%
    - Pathan: 40%
    - Baluchi: 28%

    For Pakistan, another study (Qamar et al, 2002) has the following breakdown for R1a1:
    - Kashmiri (Pakistani portion):58%
    - Punjabi: 51%
    - Pathan: 49%
    - Sindhi: 49%
    - Balti (Baltistan - Northern Areas): 46%

    As for J2a (M410), in India it is more common amongst upper castes: Iyengar, Iyer & Kurumba. In Pakistan J2a is found mostly amongst the Sindhis, Makranis and Baluchis settled along the coastal areas.

    A generalised conclusion for both R1a1 and J2a presence in South Asia would point towards an 'upper class, dominant, invader (R1a1)/mercantile-trader (J2a) people' occupying the upper rungs of a colour-based caste system, which relegates indigenous (darker-skinned) peoples to middle/lower castes.
    Last edited by Kaiser; 6th June 2007, 09:56 PM.

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    • #32
      STR typing of ancient DNA extracted from hair shafts of Siberian mummies.
      Amory S, Keyser C, Crube'zy E, Ludes B.


      Andronovo culture (2300–1000 BC)
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture

      yDNA - R1a1
      16-11,14-14-32-25-11-11-13-14-11-10
      (DYS19-385a,b-389I-389II-390-391-392-393-437-438-439) - 2 sample

      mtDNA - T1, U4, U2e, H?, K, U5a1

      Tagar culture (800–200 BC)
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagar_culture

      yDNA - R1a1
      17-11,14-13-31-24-11-11-13-14-11-10
      16-11,14-13-31-24-11-11-13-14-11-10
      16-11,14-14-31-25-11-11-13-14-11-10
      17-11,14-13-31-24-11-12-13-14-11-10
      (DYS19-385a,b-389I-389II-390-391-392-393-437-438-439)

      Tachtyk culture (200 BC–200 AD)
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tashtyk_culture

      yDNA - R1a1
      17-11,14-13-31-24-11-11-13-14-11-10
      (DYS19-385a,b-389I-389II-390-391-392-393-437-438-439)

      Afanassievo culture (3500–2500 BC)
      yDNA - no data
      mtDNA - N1a, T

      Comment


      • #33
        As for J2a (M410), in India it is more common amongst upper castes: Iyengar, Iyer & Kurumba. In Pakistan J2a is found mostly amongst the Sindhis, Makranis and Baluchis settled along the coastal areas.

        A generalised conclusion for both R1a1 and J2a presence in South Asia would point towards an 'upper class, dominant, invader (R1a1)/mercantile-trader (J2a) people' occupying the upper rungs of a colour-based caste system, which relegates indigenous (darker-skinned) peoples to middle/lower castes.[/QUOTE]



        So you think that the original J2a people in India may have been mercantile traders?

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        • #34
          on R1a1 being intelligentt

          I'm happy to see that my Y-DNA haplogroup is regarded as intelligent, et al. Unfortunately not all of us are all that smart. I, for one, am a bad example for the rest of the exalted R1a1 haplogroup.

          R1a1 & U5b2

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by J Man
            As for J2a (M410), in India it is more common amongst upper castes: Iyengar, Iyer & Kurumba. In Pakistan J2a is found mostly amongst the Sindhis, Makranis and Baluchis settled along the coastal areas.
            . . . so how much of the association of these haplogroups with "upper castes" is due to the under-representation or under-reporting of "lower castes" in databases?

            Is there a higher or lower level of genetic diversity in caste-bound societies vs. relatively egalitarian societies?

            Does the incidence of "upper caste" haplogroups among individuals reporting as "lower caste" suggest: a.) A higher degree of social mobility than may have previously been credited, vs. b.) Other, perhaps less savoury phenomena (e.g., rape)?

            Just wondering . . .

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by rsychev
              STR typing of ancient DNA extracted from hair shafts of Siberian mummies.
              Amory S, Keyser C, Crube'zy E, Ludes B.


              Andronovo culture (2300–1000 BC)
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture

              yDNA - R1a1
              16-11,14-14-32-25-11-11-13-14-11-10
              (DYS19-385a,b-389I-389II-390-391-392-393-437-438-439) - 2 sample

              mtDNA - T1, U4, U2e, H?, K, U5a1

              Tagar culture (800–200 BC)
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagar_culture

              yDNA - R1a1
              17-11,14-13-31-24-11-11-13-14-11-10
              16-11,14-13-31-24-11-11-13-14-11-10
              16-11,14-14-31-25-11-11-13-14-11-10
              17-11,14-13-31-24-11-12-13-14-11-10
              (DYS19-385a,b-389I-389II-390-391-392-393-437-438-439)

              Tachtyk culture (200 BC–200 AD)
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tashtyk_culture

              yDNA - R1a1
              17-11,14-13-31-24-11-11-13-14-11-10
              (DYS19-385a,b-389I-389II-390-391-392-393-437-438-439)

              Afanassievo culture (3500–2500 BC)
              yDNA - no data
              mtDNA - N1a, T
              Rsychev:

              I have checked the original article noted above and it only deals with Siberian mummies from the 16th to the 19th Centuries. The article that refers to the Tagar and other cultures is by Bouakaze et al. (2007) in Int J Legal Med, 121:493-499. Here there are no haplotypes given, even in the supplementary material. Did you get this data by writing to the author? Is there another paper - I don't see any mtDNA data.

              DKF.

              Comment


              • #37
                Indian Origin of R1a1 Lineage

                Following is an abstract of a paper (at http://dienekes.blogspot.com/) whose access is still restricted:

                The Autochthonous Origin and a Tribal Link of Indian Brahmins: Evaluation Through Molecular Genetic Markers, Sharma et al

                "The co-existence and associated genetic evidences for the major rival models: i) recent Central Asian introduction of Indian caste system, ii) rank related west Eurasian admixture, iii) South Asian origin for Indian caste communities, and iv) late Pleistocene heritage of tribal and caste populations, leave the question of the origin of caste system in India hazy and obscure..... A peculiar observation of highest frequency (upto 72.22%) of Y-haplogroups R1a1* in Brahmins, hinted at its presence as a founder lineage for this caste group. The widespread distribution and high frequency across Eurasia and Central Asia of R1a1* as well as scanty representation of its ancestral (R*, R1* and R1a*) and derived lineages across the region has kept the origin of this haplogroup unresolved.

                The analyses of a pooled dataset of 530 Indians, 224 Pakistanis and 276 Central Asians and Eurasians, bearing R1a1* haplogroup resolved the controversy of origin of R1a1*.

                The conclusion was drawn on the basis of: i) presence of this haplogroup in many of the tribal populations such as, Saharia (present study) and Chenchu tribe in high frequency, ii) the highest ever reported presence of R1a* (ancestral haplogroup of R1a1*) in Kashmiri Pandits (Brahmins) and Saharia tribe, and iii) associated averaged phylogenetic ages of R1a* (~18,478 years) and R1a1* (~13,768 years) in India. The study supported the autochthonous origin of R1a1 lineage and a tribal link to Indian Brahmins."

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