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R1a1 - Hindu Brahmins, Slavs and Ashkenazi Levites

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  • BlackWolf
    replied
    Jim,

    I agree. I don't see how Haplogroups can really determine migration, identity or a "Jewish or Celtic People" since all of these European haplogroups have been in central Asia and the Middle East at some point in time and only differ in frequency per region.

    Of course, a example would be the blond haired Alexander the Great he could have been Haplogroup I but easily could have been J or any othe Haplogroup for that matter.

    I am simply trying to learn more about the region in regards to the European Haplogroups seen there whether new or very old and like you I am starting to lean to very old

    I believe The Celts (R1b most likely due to the frequency in the West) have been in Asia Minor and the Middle East for a long time. The Book of the Galatians shows that the Gaelic Celts have been in Central Asia Minor for at least that long.

    I will do more research and read the links you sent.

    thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Denning
    replied
    Originally posted by BlackWolf
    Hi Jim,

    Are you suggesting that the true Celts are R1a instead of R1b and that these descend out of the Middle East (Hebrew or Chaldean?)

    Also, I know that most of the R1b Ashkenazi (I have seven in the Haplogroup base with one of them Levite) have been said to be converts but from the map I saw there also appear to be a number of R1B in Turkey?

    As well, I also have step mutations for two R1b from Syria (Arab).

    I think it is well to remember that ancient peoples grow and die out or move. Example is of the Samaritians of the Bible who today are only a couple of hundred but in the ancient days were over one million.

    Where did they go? They migrated.

    Anyway, your theory is interesting and I would tend to agree but it might not be just R1a1 but also R1b with all from R1.

    Since I am new to all this you can blow holes through all I just said.

    As for IQ, I do believe environment and social status plays a role. I am 127 which is ok. I think growing up in the tough neighborhood made me problem solve quicker.
    http://members.aol.com/X288FILES/CELT.html

    first no migrating ,invading,moving group is all one halpogroup

    the keltoi were hebrew they started at the mts from assyria and settled europe just at the same time another multi million member force called kumri left assyria.

    that said they were separate tribes not the same types of people 2 were raised egyptian princes one was sold by the others lol

    i believed this pre dna and i see it supported by a base of askenazi. if you disagree more power to you.i believe in history. the real one not written by the winners.
    btw a roman historian said the babylonians became the romans by migration.

    whatever you believe you should keep an open mind and allow the dna to say what it wants to say. not support ideas excepted today

    Leave a comment:


  • BlackWolf
    replied
    Hi Jim,

    Are you suggesting that the true Celts are R1a instead of R1b and that these descend out of the Middle East (Hebrew or Chaldean?)

    Also, I know that most of the R1b Ashkenazi (I have seven in the Haplogroup base with one of them Levite) have been said to be converts but from the map I saw there also appear to be a number of R1B in Turkey?

    As well, I also have step mutations for two R1b from Syria (Arab).

    I think it is well to remember that ancient peoples grow and die out or move. Example is of the Samaritians of the Bible who today are only a couple of hundred but in the ancient days were over one million.

    Where did they go? They migrated.

    Anyway, your theory is interesting and I would tend to agree but it might not be just R1a1 but also R1b with all from R1.

    Since I am new to all this you can blow holes through all I just said.

    As for IQ, I do believe environment and social status plays a role. I am 127 which is ok. I think growing up in the tough neighborhood made me problem solve quicker.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Denning
    replied
    virgil's masterpiece the Aeneid,

    just search
    Aeneid, by virgil

    and the history of the british kings

    Leave a comment:


  • R1a_M17_India
    replied
    Anything on the net?

    Thanks, is there any website which hosts this story?


    Are you too R1a, which part of Europe?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Denning
    replied
    Originally posted by R1a_M17_India
    Hi there!

    Yes, I have caught up on research since my earliest posting.

    R1a is called the Aryan marker even in India which has got a huge diversity of genetic types. Some folks dont like it and there is a huge debate to prove that R1a migrated out of India, and not into A simple search will yield you some of these debates.

    I guess it has nothing to do with religion, but that all these people from Iceland, Eastern Europe and India arose from the same group in and around the Caucasian mountains. Looks like quite a few Ashkenazi Jews were actually from that region who later went to other places. I chanced upon some web sites which try to explain how the Vikings got R1a, or how they reached Scandinavia. Here is a web page that tries to describe how R1a ended up in UK from the Vikings.
    http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....lo_r1a_two.htm


    Personally, ...mind boggling journey to India!
    read virgil's masterpiece the Aeneid, of the story of troy from the trojan prespective,. what happened to the boy in the movie with the sword of troy
    . then find out how did he wound up in britian and give london its first name new troy?

    Leave a comment:


  • R1a_M17_India
    replied
    Spread of R1a1

    Originally posted by joinge
    R1a1 is rare in West Europe, but for some reason a lot of people in Scandinavia have this haplogroup. It is more commonly found some parts of Eastern Europe.

    I know that some Jewish groups have this haplogroup, but ironically, in west Europe the R1a1 haplogroup is called the Aryan marker. It indicates Viking ancestry in the British Isles. When found in Jewish persons, it indicates that they have ancestors in Eastern Europe.

    30% of people in West Norway and many people from Iceland are R1a1. This haplogroup can also be found in some parts of Ireland and Scotland.

    I am a Norwegian with haplogroup R1a1, and my family is Norwegian on both sides for many generations back.

    The theory is that the Vikings were R1a1, and their ancestors came from some other part of the world than the rest of Europe.

    When it comes to IQ, I think that it is dangerous to use DNA to classify one as more intelligent or better than others. We all know about the Second World War.

    Nevertheless, I did not have any trouble becoming a member of Mensa and do actually have a very high IQ.
    Hi there!

    Yes, I have caught up on research since my earliest posting.

    R1a is called the Aryan marker even in India which has got a huge diversity of genetic types. Some folks dont like it and there is a huge debate to prove that R1a migrated out of India, and not into A simple search will yield you some of these debates.

    I guess it has nothing to do with religion, but that all these people from Iceland, Eastern Europe and India arose from the same group in and around the Caucasian mountains. Looks like quite a few Ashkenazi Jews were actually from that region who later went to other places. I chanced upon some web sites which try to explain how the Vikings got R1a, or how they reached Scandinavia. Here is a web page that tries to describe how R1a ended up in UK from the Vikings.
    http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....lo_r1a_two.htm


    Personally, ...mind boggling journey to India!
    Last edited by R1a_M17_India; 10th October 2005, 01:55 AM. Reason: a

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Very interesting reading.

    To Jim Denning:

    Very interesting reading.

    I have to read the George Washington and Israel article more thoroughly.
    It looks very interesting, since it makes a connection between Israelites, Odin and George Washington. (Odin was the "God of Gods", but also referred to as a king in Scandinavian mythology)

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Denning
    replied
    Originally posted by joinge
    R1a1 is rare in West Europe, but for some reason a lot of people in Scandinavia have this haplogroup. It is more commonly found some parts of Eastern Europe.

    I know that some Jewish groups have this haplogroup, but ironically, in west Europe the R1a1 haplogroup is called the Aryan marker. It indicates Viking ancestry in the British Isles. When found in Jewish persons, it indicates that they have ancestors in Eastern Europe.

    30% of people in West Norway and many people from Iceland are R1a1. This haplogroup can also be found in some parts of Ireland and Scotland.

    I am a Norwegian with haplogroup R1a1, and my family is Norwegian on both sides for many generations back.

    The theory is that the Vikings were R1a1, and their ancestors came from some other part of the world than the rest of Europe.

    When it comes to IQ, I think that it is dangerous to use DNA to classify one as more intelligent or better than others. We all know about the Second World War.

    Nevertheless, I did not have any trouble becoming a member of Mensa and do actually have a very high IQ.
    to most this a quandry
    To people like me who believe that the keltoi left assyria and settled europe it isnt. Since they were hebrew [not jewish]
    george washingtons genealogy in the library of congress states he decends from odin who migrates assyria at the time of the keltoi movement west

    http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/washington.html
    http://members.aol.com/washpage/links.html

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    R1a1 in Scandinavia (Vikings)

    R1a1 is rare in West Europe, but for some reason a lot of people in Scandinavia have this haplogroup. It is more commonly found some parts of Eastern Europe.

    I know that some Jewish groups have this haplogroup, but ironically, in west Europe the R1a1 haplogroup is called the Aryan marker. It indicates Viking ancestry in the British Isles. When found in Jewish persons, it indicates that they have ancestors in Eastern Europe.

    30% of people in West Norway and many people from Iceland are R1a1. This haplogroup can also be found in some parts of Ireland and Scotland.

    I am a Norwegian with haplogroup R1a1, and my family is Norwegian on both sides for many generations back.

    The theory is that the Vikings were R1a1, and their ancestors came from some other part of the world than the rest of Europe.

    When it comes to IQ, I think that it is dangerous to use DNA to classify one as more intelligent or better than others. We all know about the Second World War.

    Nevertheless, I did not have any trouble becoming a member of Mensa and do actually have a very high IQ.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Denning
    replied
    Originally posted by BlackWolf
    Jim,

    I guess it is the age old question. Who am I? Where do I come from and Where am I going?

    DNA studies answer some of those questions but it seems far from being a exact science.

    One of things that surprised me was just how similar we really all are and how identity is very much a individual choice.

    Mr. BlackWolf I think i just met an intelligent man.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlackWolf
    replied
    Ashkenazi

    Jim,

    I guess it is the age old question. Who am I? Where do I come from and Where am I going?

    DNA studies answer some of those questions but it seems far from being a exact science.

    One of things that surprised me was just how similar we really all are and how identity is very much a individual choice.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Denning
    replied
    I think you'll find that dna doesnt respect systems like races humans have developed.i am a totally with irish man from somalia e3b1 millenia ago

    you should understand the people who came from the east to settle europe were the same people that the askenazis are from. so whats the surprize?

    Leave a comment:


  • R1a_M17_India
    replied
    Lambadis

    I agree with you on the IQ piece.

    On the origin of R1a in Lambadis - They were originally from Rajasthan. You might have read that the Gypsies of Europe (Romanys) have been found to have Indian origins. Lambadis are of similar stock. It seems they were displaced en masse from the Rajasthan area during the Muslim invasions from Middle East, enslaved, made to fight for their masters in distant lands, or simply become nomadic to escape.

    That explanation makes it logical for them to have some R1a, since a group of people with different backgrounds would have been displaced, and later formed a community/tribe, with sufficient bi-directional genetic exchange.

    I am not sure of the Coorgis, but if they have Greek connections, it would not have been R1a, it would have been some other haplogroup (I think it was J or something, not sure).

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    R1a1

    Hi,
    I just came across this message thread by chance. I do a lot of reading on genetics and haplotypes. If my understanding is correct, R1a1 is found among several ethnic groups including Brahmins, Coorgi's and Lambadis ( of AP ) , and found in a good percentage in many castes ( cutting across different regions ) . Probably the high IQ is not related to this haplotype, as , if that is the case all the above ethnic groups above in India will have a very IQ. Also almost all of the Slavic population will have a very high IQ.

    In case of European Jews, the commonly accepted theory (though not scientifically proven in the formal sense) why they do well in academics is that they have gone through several centuries of natural selection for academic success ( indirectly ) . Jews had to live in a hostile environment, and many professions were restricted to them . This is why other Jewish groups who lived in more liberal regions do not have as high an IQ as the European Jews do.
    In case of India, it is possible that many groups who do well academically (like yours) probably went through some sort of natural selection for better academic activities,( like keeping only academically inclined in the clan and permitting bright individuals from other clans into one’s clan) . If this process goes on for a few centuries, the average IQ will definitely be higher.

    Leave a comment:

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