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Can one of the available tests tell me what I want to know?

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Thanks to all for your answers. My cousins and I will need to look at these and decide how to proceed.

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  • Osiris
    replied
    When it comes to autosomal DNA while you have 50% of each parents DNA you do not necessarily have 25% from each grandparent. And the generation after must also vary. The best (and expensive) option is to try and grab DNA from each of your your grandparent and their siblings lines. The more you sample the better you'll be able to determine how much DNA your potential ancestor had.

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  • thormalen
    replied
    Another thing we must keep in mind when searching for a NA background is that early NAs had no tribe affiliations as we know today. They were a very strong and adventurous people that thought nothing of crossing continents on foot.
    The Native American tribes today want us to believe they were on the land that they now hold forever. That is far from true. The tribes traveled great distances and had interaction with many other tribes...friendly and unfriendly. My mother thought her people were Cherokee and they were... BUT I have found DNA connections with the Sac and Fox from the Great Lakes and the Creek and the Wicocomico. There is no telling just who my Native American ancestors really were. I find that very interesting and challenging.

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  • thormalen
    replied
    I had more or less the same story in my mother's people. My mother believed she was a 2nd cousin with the Cherokee Will Rogers. I now have the paper trail to prove her Cherokee family history back to the 1700s thanks to Will Rogers being famous and books written about him. Without that I would be out of luck I think on the paper trail.
    But to answer your question what DNA test have I taken that would prove Native American ancestors. The Family Finder has proven it to me. First you need to research just what DNA is considered to be Native American. For example Q1a3aI is one of those. Then as your FF cousins come in you look for those interesting DNAs. I found a cousin with the Q1a3aI and contacted him. He was a very nice person and replied to my E mail and believed he knew where our connection came from. Luck plays a big role. You may also have part Native American cousins that do not carry NA DNA so their family stories are important. It takes time and persistence on your part.

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  • tomcat
    replied
    Originally posted by KATM View Post
    Is this a case where tracking the X chromosome might be of use? ... Does FTDNA's Family Finder display X chromosome results?
    Yes, if the GGGF was Indian on his maternal line, his sole X would be Indian to some unknown degree. He would have passed that X to the GGM unchanged. There are three potential recombination events from there to the poster, possibly too few to have erased any signal of Indian ancestry.

    23&Me matches on X and paints X in Ancestry Composition. FTDNA does not yet use X. Gedmatch does.

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  • KATM
    replied
    Is this a case where tracking the X chromosome might be of use? I have only read about it, but it seems like 23andme would display such a thing. Some articles I've read on the X chromosome topic:
    http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.co...a-testing.html
    http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.co...-23andmes.html
    http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com...-x-chromosome/
    http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com...mosome-charts/
    http://linealarboretum.blogspot.com/...hromosome.html

    Does FTDNA's Family Finder display X chromosome results?

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  • tomcat
    replied
    Originally posted by Strawfoot View Post
    For a little clarity, you're looking for the father of your great grandmothers line? Are there any direct male descendants of your great grandmothers father who can test for you? Since he's your grandmothers father you don't carry his Y-dna, but if your g-grandmother had a brother, and he had a son and so on, the brother and his sons will have the fathers Y-DNA, which can tell you without a doubt if their male line is Native....
    Another possibility is that GGGF had an Indian mother and carried an Indian mtDNA haplogroup that he could not pass-on to any of his descendants. As per above, the only way to know is to locate and test a person who descends from the same maternal line as the GGGF.

    It would be a challenge to locate such a person, given all the familiar problems of maternal descent, but it is more likely an Indian maternal haplogroup was preserved, given all the usual reasons.

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  • tomcat
    replied
    Originally posted by bonnieknauss23 View Post
    I am not interested in finding cousins or other family members. I am interested in proving or disproving the family story of American Indian blood. The story says that my great-grandmother was part Indian. ... There are direct female descendants but that would not seem to help unless the Indian blood came from her maternal line, which I am fairly confident it did not. ... Would there be any advantage to getting a direct line female cousin to do the maternal DNA test? Appreciate any explanations you can give me.
    Insofar as finding and connecting with DNA cousins is the only way to correlate DNA results to genealogy, for you and those cousins, I urge you not to shun participation in DNA matching.

    And, insofar as it is much more likely American Indian mtDNA has been preserved than American Indian Y, it may be worthwhile to test a direct maternal line descendant of your great grandmother. As per other posters, the preferred candidate is a family elder, one who is the fewest generations distant from that great grandmother.

    Both the 23&Me and Geno 2.0 tests will give reliable mtDNA and Y subclade assignments that will indicate American Indian ancestry on the direct maternal and paternal lines if present. And both will disclose autosomal American Indian ancestry if present to a sufficient degree. Geno 2.0 is more up-to-date as regards direct-line assignments but 23&Me covers more of the autosomal genome and 23&Me results can be transferred to FTDNA to permit you to participate in two different matching databases. 23&Me also features an improved ancestry estimation calculator, Ancestry Composition, that most users find more detailed than FTDNA's Population Finder.
    Last edited by tomcat; 9 January 2013, 06:44 AM.

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  • mixedkid
    replied
    You can go two routes:

    (1) Take the FamilyFinder (autosomal) test with FTDNA. Your basic ancestry results will probably not indicate any Native American background that far back with that test. However, you can then take your raw genetic data to a free site, GEDmatch.com, and see if any Native American segments show up using various calculators there. Look for small, scattered chromsosome segements mainly. Besides Amerindian, Mezo-American, etc. type labels, look for "Beringian" that might come up in your results.

    (2) A faster, probably more direct route would be to take the autosomal test with 23 and Me. My results from that company have not arrived yet, but from what I have read about, seen on TV and heard from others, that test will pick up Native American ancestry pretty quickly. Just don't look for a huge percentage of possible Native American ancestry. That is what people often want to see but that is not what will probably be there considering that the full-blood Native American ancestor is many generations back in your family tree.

    You will run into naysayers who like to use the term "noise," especially when considering Native American ancestry. If you family's tradition says that there was such ancestry in your family tree, it is worth considering the possiblity that it is true.

    Consider the known backgrounds of your ancestors: Were any French-Canadian, Acadian, Mexican, southern U.S. colonial or African American? If so, the likelihood that you have Native American ancestors grows considerably. I hope this helps.

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  • MMaddi
    replied
    I think the possibilities for tests to take are FTDNA's Family Finder, Geno 2.0 (both mentioned above) and 23andMe. These are all autosomal DNA tests, so they're analyzing DNA inherited from all family lines in the person.

    As was mentioned by another poster, you should have the relative of the oldest generation descended from your great-grandmother with suspected Native American ancestry. Since autosomal DNA recombines with each generation, segments of DNA that may identify Native American ancestry will be most likely to be preserved in a descendant who's less distant in time from your great-grandmother.

    I don't have experience with either Family Finder and Geno 2.0 and how good they are at identifying possible Native American ancestry. Perhaps someone here can speak to those two tests. Since I've tested at 23andMe and share with some people with Native American ancestry, I can speak to results for those people.

    I share with seven people who have Native American mtDNA haplogroups. In the new Ancestry Composition feature, which estimates ethnic/geographic admixture over the last 500 years, the range of Native American is from 0% (two of them) to 21.7%. Two others are at about the 10% level - 11.8% and 9.6%. So, in five out of seven, the test was able to detect some level of Native American ancestry. Perhaps in the two cases of 0% given for Native American the ancestry was so minor and distant that no DNA traces were left to detect.

    That seems to me like a good shot for you to find some Native American ancestry. Also, once you've tested at 23andMe, you can transfer your results from there to FTDNA for $89 and then get a second opinion from the Population Finder part of the Family Finder test. Population Finder assigns admixture percentage estimates in a similar way to Ancestry Composition at 23andMe.

    Also, once you have either 23andMe or Family Finder results, you can upload your raw data to the free gedmatch.com site, which has four different admixture analysis tools. That would give you more estimates of possible Native American ancestry. At this point, gedmatch.com isn't set up to handle Geno 2.0 raw data.
    Last edited by MMaddi; 8 January 2013, 10:07 PM.

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  • Bertp
    replied
    I haven't taken the test but you might consider the National Geographic test 2.0. That test was specifically designed to determine one's genetic background
    https://genographic.nationalgeograph...e-geno-2-0-kit
    -----

    Also remember at the great great grandparent level and higher, it becomes difficult to use terms like "disprove" because you simply may have not inherited a significant amount of DNA from that particular ancestor.

    If you're interested in a more precise answer, keep asking! There are plenty of experts lurking around these forums that can give you a more informed opinion
    Last edited by Bertp; 8 January 2013, 09:23 PM.

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  • vinnie
    replied
    You should use Family Finder to test the female cousin that's closest in generation to the great-grandmother in question; her autosomal DNA might carry some Native American (NA) markers if there are any to be found. If her results do show some NA ancestry, then you'd have to try to figure out if it's coming from your great-great grandfather, or another line in your cousin's tree. Note that the absence of NA markers does not disprove your family story of NA ancestry. Otherwise, while you're not interested in finding long lost cousins, ironically it could be one of them that could verify the story for you.

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  • Strawfoot
    replied
    For a little clarity, you're looking for the father of your great grandmothers line? Are there any direct male descendants of your great grandmothers father who can test for you? Since he's your grandmothers father you don't carry his Y-dna, but if your g-grandmother had a brother, and he had a son and so on, the brother and his sons will have the fathers Y-DNA, which can tell you without a doubt if their male line is Native. If only you are available for testing, I don't really think anything will tell you. Maybe the Autosomal DNA test, however don't order that off my mentioning it here. Wait for someone that has had one done to come tell you for sure because I could be wrong.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest started a topic Can one of the available tests tell me what I want to know?

    Can one of the available tests tell me what I want to know?

    I am not interested in finding cousins or other family members. I am interested in proving or disproving the family story of American Indian blood. The story says that my great-grandmother was part Indian. I have proven her lines back through her mother several generations definitely with no Indians. I have her father's name and and birth location from KS census (KY) but I cannot connect him to any other families of that name. I really feel that if she was Indian then it came from him. She was an only child so there are no male descendants. There are direct female descendants but that would not seem to help unless the Indian blood came from her maternal line, which I am fairly confident it did not. So, will the general ancestry DNA test on me give me enough information to prove or disprove that story (I am female but not direct female line)? Would there be any advantage to getting a direct line female cousin to do the maternal DNA test? Appreciate any explanations you can give me.
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