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  • Assistance Requested

    Hello to All!

    Just over a year ago I had 12 marker YDNA & MTDNA test conducted. I had no matches for YDNA and Haplogroup results were inconclusive. Thanks to FTDNA the Haplogroup was later determined to be E3a SNP P1+. I had no exact matches but did have six two-step mutations. Recent Ethnic Origins: 2 African (nationality unspecified), 1 El Salvador, 4 unknown. My MtDNA haplogroup was determined to be N1c and I have two low resolution matches one of the low resolution matches has Jamaican Ancestry and the other like mine Southern USA. I have struggled for years off and on to trace my roots through hard documents and family folklore only to run into numerous deadends and brickwalls. I had hoped that the DNA testing would provide some answers to me such as ethnic origins. I am African-American and as you probably know in this country particularly in most parts of the South (where my family is from) many African-Americans have ancestral slave lineages such as mine, is it possible to determine what parts of Africa your ancestors initially came from and to which ethnic group(s) they belonged? That was a huge part of the reason I invested in the testing. I have looked at the FTDNA Haplogroup descriptions For both E3a and N1c. Both are very general, with E3a covering most of sub-saharan Africa further described as belonging to the Bantu group. Africa is the 2nd largest continent and I believe the Bantu are the largest ethnic group in Sub-Saharan Africa encompassing many smaller sub-ethnic groups and nationalities. N1c appears to originate in Western Eurasia. When I first received my results I sent them to a forum member and she forwarded a research document to me suggesting that my MtDNA Haplogroup might actually be L3 rather than N1c. Which would make more sense to me as an African-American. I know that there was a great deal of race mixing (for the lack of a better term) going on in the South during slavery but I also know that it occured much less frequently between African-American males and Caucasian females during that era. So I am inclined to doubt a N1c heritage. My final question to anyone is: are the FTDNA, and Ysearch public databases sample of African and African-Americans too small to answer any of the questions above? I have since discovered a sight for another agency advertising the possibility of determining the origin of African-Ancestry but dont want to get my hopes up again. Incidentally, I dont believe that agency participate in the Ysearch Public data base. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank You in advance,

    J. Johnson

  • #2
    Originally posted by J.Johnson
    Hello to All!

    Americans too small to answer any of the questions above? I have since discovered a sight for another agency advertising the possibility of determining the origin of African-Ancestry but dont want to get my hopes up again. Incidentally, I dont believe that agency participate in the Ysearch Public data base. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank You in advance,

    J. Johnson

    jj the answer to all our problems is more people testing yeah more black people need to test for alot of reasons like finding decendents of cromwells exciles in the west indies
    and to get you answers what you need to do is get more blacks to test i have one in my projects testing now

    get that chin up you have your markers put them in sgi ysearch and all the other databases eventually you ll get answers

    i have a member white with no matches in 2yrs none not even close at 12 ydna egad

    Comment


    • #3
      what's your sequence?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by vraatyah
        what's your sequence?

        E3b 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 16 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 16 17 9 11 19 19 17 12 17 19 31 34 11 10

        Comment


        • #5
          sorry Jim, I addressed this to J.Johnson - I'm not familiar with Ys )

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by vraatyah
            what's your sequence?
            Im not sure if this is the sequence you are referring to. Please let me know.
            Thanks,

            J. Johnson

            N1c

            HVR1 differences

            from CRS
            16223T

            16265T

            16519C

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jim Denning
              jj the answer to all our problems is more people testing yeah more black people need to test for alot of reasons like finding decendents of cromwells exciles in the west indies
              and to get you answers what you need to do is get more blacks to test i have one in my projects testing now

              get that chin up you have your markers put them in sgi ysearch and all the other databases eventually you ll get answers

              i have a member white with no matches in 2yrs none not even close at 12 ydna egad
              Jim,

              I'm not familiar with SGI Ysearch or any other databases outside of FTDNA and Ysearch. Are the data bases you are referring to open to the public? Thanks,

              J. Johnson

              Comment


              • #8
                I suspect it was a bad assignment due to inaccuracy or a clerical error rather than the lack of agreement on this problem. Sequences that fall into N1c have G at 16265 unlike ones from L3e3 haplogroup which is defined by A->T transversion in this position and the ancestral 2352 transition.

                here are some L3e3 sequences from my database:



                population name hg hvs1 hvs2

                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 093-223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 093-223-265T 73-150-195-263-315.1C
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 093-148-223-265T 73-150-195-198-263-315.1C
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T 73-150-195-263-315.1C
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519-527 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d-569N-571N-572N-573N-574N
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 093-148-223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 093-189-223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519-527 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-311-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 176-223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 024N-033N-093-148-223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d-527N
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 093-223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-304-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 093-223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T 73-150-195-263-315.1C
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T 73-150-195-263-315.1C
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519-527 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d-527N
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-309.1C-315.1C-523d-524d-573.1C-573.2C-573.3C
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T 73-150-195-263-315.1C
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519-527 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 189-223-265T-294-311-465 73-150-257-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519-527 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T 73-150-195-263-315.1C
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T 73-150-195-263-315.1C
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-309.1C-315.1C-523d-524d
                Bioko of Mateu 223-265T N/A
                Brazil of Catira-Bortolini L3e 223-265T N/A
                Brazil of Catira-Bortolini L3e 223-265T N/A
                France NE (Richards-2000) L3e 093-223-265T-278
                France NE (Richards-2000) L3e 093-223-265T-278
                Palestinians of Richards and Di Rienzo L3e 189-223-265T
                Palestinians of Richards and Di Rienzo L3e 223-265T
                Salas 2002 L3e3 145-223-265T
                Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T
                Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T
                Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T-327
                Salas 2002 L3e3 265T
                Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T-327
                Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T
                Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T
                Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T
                Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T
                Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T
                Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T
                Senegalese Serer L3e 093-148-223-265T-311
                Yemenis of Kivisild L3e3 223-265T
                Yemenis of Kivisild L3e3 223-265T
                Yemenis of Kivisild L3e3 223-265T-327
                Yemenis of Kivisild L3e3 223-265T-327


                Valery
                Last edited by vraatyah; 2 September 2005, 08:45 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation

                  http://smgf.org/updates.html

                  Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jim Denning
                    http://smgf.org/updates.html

                    Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation

                    Jim,

                    Thanks, this has been most helpful.

                    J. Johnson

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by vraatyah
                      I suspect it was a bad assignment due to inaccuracy or a clerical error rather than the lack of agreement on this problem. Sequences that fall into N1c have G at 16265 unlike ones from L3e3 haplogroup which is defined by A->T transversion in this position and the ancestral 2352 transition.

                      here are some L3e3 sequences from my database:



                      population name hg hvs1 hvs2

                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 093-223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 093-223-265T 73-150-195-263-315.1C
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 093-148-223-265T 73-150-195-198-263-315.1C
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T 73-150-195-263-315.1C
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519-527 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d-569N-571N-572N-573N-574N
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 093-148-223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 093-189-223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519-527 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-311-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 176-223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 024N-033N-093-148-223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d-527N
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 093-223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-304-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 093-223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T 73-150-195-263-315.1C
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T 73-150-195-263-315.1C
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519-527 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d-527N
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-309.1C-315.1C-523d-524d-573.1C-573.2C-573.3C
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T 73-150-195-263-315.1C
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519-527 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 189-223-265T-294-311-465 73-150-257-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519-527 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T 73-150-195-263-315.1C
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T 73-150-195-263-315.1C
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-315.1C-523d-524d
                      African-American of FBI Laboratory L3e 223-265T-519 73-150-195-263-309.1C-315.1C-523d-524d
                      Bioko of Mateu 223-265T N/A
                      Brazil of Catira-Bortolini L3e 223-265T N/A
                      Brazil of Catira-Bortolini L3e 223-265T N/A
                      France NE (Richards-2000) L3e 093-223-265T-278
                      France NE (Richards-2000) L3e 093-223-265T-278
                      Palestinians of Richards and Di Rienzo L3e 189-223-265T
                      Palestinians of Richards and Di Rienzo L3e 223-265T
                      Salas 2002 L3e3 145-223-265T
                      Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T
                      Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T
                      Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T-327
                      Salas 2002 L3e3 265T
                      Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T-327
                      Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T
                      Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T
                      Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T
                      Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T
                      Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T
                      Salas 2002 L3e3 223-265T
                      Senegalese Serer L3e 093-148-223-265T-311
                      Yemenis of Kivisild L3e3 223-265T
                      Yemenis of Kivisild L3e3 223-265T
                      Yemenis of Kivisild L3e3 223-265T-327
                      Yemenis of Kivisild L3e3 223-265T-327


                      Valery

                      Valery,


                      Thank you for all of your help. Looks like I finally have something to work with.

                      J. Johnson

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        315.1c

                        I just Read vraatyah,s #8 Post, and every African-American has 315.1C in the string.
                        I also have 315.1C as a mutation in HVR2. My question is do we have a common ancestor?

                        Judy
                        Last edited by Judith Stanley; 8 September 2005, 12:48 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          >I also have 315.1C as a mutation in HVR2. My question is do we have a common ancestor?

                          Judith, all people originated in Africa )

                          as for insertions at the C-tract, they are not indicative at all. Most people have at least one additional residue between 309 and 315 compared to crs.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Judith Stanley
                            I just Read vraatyah,s #8 Post, and every African-American has 315.1C in the string.
                            I also have 315.1C as a mutation in HVR2. My question is do we have a common ancestor?

                            Judy

                            JUDY and others one thing i try and push here is the obvious doesnt have to be the obviuos. cromwell sent irish and scots to white slavery in the us barbadios and other places. some irish were in barbadios and the west indies and they married or had sex with blacks . the males will contuinue to have irish ydna nd the females will have black.
                            now a young black today tests assuming what people will and instead of e3a he gets something strange J ,Q,R, WHATEVER. he then assumes the slave master raped his female ancestor. But does that have to be true ? ans:no

                            H e could be a decendent of a white slave. see no one wants to talk about white slaves but cromwell was a white slaver. now dna might show his work


                            if you read the site you see they were sold on streets.
                            indentured servetude was whensomeone didnt have the passage to america paying that back was the freedom . being in a prison because you lost a war starving in britian . and they decide instead of feeding them and treating them right. they would send you to america australia and west indies and on a street corner they sell you
                            thats not servitude its slavery

                            "Alexander Stewart was herded off the Gildart in July of 1747, bound with chains. Stewart was pushed onto the auction block in Wecomica, St Mary’s County, Maryland. Doctor Stewart and his brother William were attending the auction, aware of Alexander being on that slave ship coming from Liverpool England. Doctor Stewart and William were residents of Annapolis and brothers to David of Ballachalun in Montieth, Scotland. The two brothers paid nine pound six shillings sterling to Mr. Benedict Callvert of Annapolis for the purchase of Alexander. He was a slave. Alexander tells of the other 88 Scots sold into slavery that day in “THE LYON IN MOURNING” pages 242-243.Jeremiah Howell was a lifetime "

                            search white slavery and get this
                            74% White Slavery, what the Scots already know
                            ... White Slavery, what the Scots already know Electric Scotland hold over 12000
                            Hits: 42
                            Title: White Slavery, what the Scots already know Electric Scotland hold over 12000 p



                            taken from emails i have
                            Quotations from various authors are just the tip of the iceberg on the white
                            > slave trade of the Americas. People from the British Isles were kidnapped,
                            > put in chains and crammed into ships that transported hundreds of them at a
                            > time. Their destination was Virginia, Boston, New York, Barbados and the
                            > West
                            > Indies.
                            >
                            > http://www.electricscotland.com/hist...e_slavery.htm\
                            >
                            > James Stewart arrived in Boston in 1652
                            >
                            > http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.c...-coat-arms.htm
                            >
                            > James MacGregor to Governor Shute. in which the writer says: ... A shipload
                            > of
                            > these unfortunates arrived in Boston Harbour 1652 on the ship John and Sara.
                            >
                            > http://www.electricscotland.com/hist...ants/chap1.htm
                            >
                            > STEWART, CHARLES
                            > Royalist soldier captured at Worcester.
                            > Transported from Gravesend to Boston.
                            > John and Sara master John Greene.
                            > 13 May 1652

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              what looks to be a black and white issue might not be after all

                              Comment

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