Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

J1b..what am I? Batch 114

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • J1b..what am I? Batch 114

    Okay I tried posting this earlier and I can't find it so I will try it here. I just got my mom's info and it gave me a J1b group. So what does this make me? I am waiting on my dad's stuff to come in so any help is greatly appreciated. Both my parents are deceased as are most of the old folks that could help me.

  • #2
    Do you mean that the maternal mtdna haplogroup was J1b? (If your paternal line is J1 this would suggest Semetic origins) J1s originated near modern Kurdistan ( according to the Iraqi Federalist Society) by the Zagros mountains. The main migration into Europe was near the Black Sea and then into eastern Europe. Some went to the north into modern Finland and Scandinavia. Another branch, mainly J2s, migrated to the Mediterranian. From there the migration went north on the Atlantic coast eventually to Great Britain and Ireland.
    Last edited by josh w.; 24 August 2005, 02:23 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey Josh thanks for answering, yes this is the maternal side my dad's info is still being cooked. I was wondering if the "J" portion of this haplogroup J1b meant that there was some Semetic blood on my mom's side. I understand that the J is Semetic, so I was thinking that this J1b might be a sub branch of some sort but I can not find a lot on the web pertaining to this group. There have been rumors within the family but they are a close mouthed bunch and wouldnt even help with this search. I was reading about the Cryptojews on another website and this would certainly explain some of the weird reactions from family members when I approched them about our geneology! I played phone tag with Mr. Greenspan at FTDNA yesterday but havent made contact with him yet. It would certainly be a surprise if there were some Semetic blood but not unwelcomed. I would just be happy to know anything about my folks who have passed on. When I started to ask questions from family members the wall of silence went up and I was told in no uncertain terms to cease and desist this whole idea....like I said they'er a tough crowd. So I just sent in my own sample

      Comment


      • #4
        As has been noted by many members there are no haplogroups unique to any ethnic group. Ji occurs in many eastern European groups including those of Jewish descent. However it also appears among Slavs, Germanic peoples including Scandinavians and Anglo-Saxons, Baltic and Finno-Urgic groups. With a Near Eastern origin J1s can also be found around the Black Sea, e.g. Turkey. It so happens that all of my matches and I are of Jewish descent. However this is a result of the "selective" nature of the FTDNA sample and is not characteristic of J1s as a whole. Do you have any information on your maternal lines' nationality or ethnic background?
        Last edited by josh w.; 25 August 2005, 02:39 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jm138
          Hey Josh thanks for answering, yes this is the maternal side my dad's info is still being cooked. I was wondering if the "J" portion of this haplogroup J1b meant that there was some Semetic blood on my mom's side. I understand that the J is Semetic, so I was thinking that this J1b might be a sub branch of some sort but I can not find a lot on the web pertaining to this group. There have been rumors within the family but they are a close mouthed bunch and wouldnt even help with this search. I was reading about the Cryptojews on another website and this would certainly explain some of the weird reactions from family members when I approched them about our geneology! I played phone tag with Mr. Greenspan at FTDNA yesterday but havent made contact with him yet. It would certainly be a surprise if there were some Semetic blood but not unwelcomed. I would just be happy to know anything about my folks who have passed on. When I started to ask questions from family members the wall of silence went up and I was told in no uncertain terms to cease and desist this whole idea....like I said they'er a tough crowd. So I just sent in my own sample
          Yes, some family members are reluctant to give information, or some just may not know. My family lines in New Mexico are most likely descended from anusim on the Spanish and Portuguese side, due to the customs they had. Some of my family members on this line are open to talk about a crypto-jewish past, others are not so quick to want to talk about it. I think this stems from generations of secrecy, and some of the family members who are reluctant to talk about it are in the older generations. I would like to test a living brother of my paternal Grandmother to get the Y haplogroup, but this may be too difficult. Many people do not like to give DNA. I am hoping to find distant relatives on these lines from New Mexico that already had their Y-DNA tested, surnames: Lopez, Suazo, Chacon, Chavez. In the meantime, figuring out how to ask a great-uncle to give a DNA sample to determine "Jewishness" might prove difficult....
          Last edited by breakwater70; 25 August 2005, 02:56 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Breakwater,

            Isn't life strange? Among Jews there is a certain reluctance to find out that one might have some ancestors who were NOT Jewish. Most of us carry an idea in our heads of who we are and where we come from. Even those who test their DNA in order to learn more are rarely neutral about the test results--they either elate or disappoint, to some degree. The history of the crypto-Jews in New Mexico is a fascinating one; these were very brave, and probably very secretive and lonely people, given all that had happened to them and the measures they took to save themselves. Five hundred years is a long time to keep alive any memories at all. I hope you can make your relatives see that this is something to be proud of.

            JM138,

            Be careful not to confuse the data on Y DNA haplogroup J with that on mtDNA haplogroup J. The nomenclature is very confusing but the history and ethnic associations of these groups are different. In neither case does J *necessarily* denote Jewish ancestry.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by dentate
              Breakwater,

              Isn't life strange? Among Jews there is a certain reluctance to find out that one might have some ancestors who were NOT Jewish. Most of us carry an idea in our heads of who we are and where we come from. Even those who test their DNA in order to learn more are rarely neutral about the test results--they either elate or disappoint, to some degree. The history of the crypto-Jews in New Mexico is a fascinating one; these were very brave, and probably very secretive and lonely people, given all that had happened to them and the measures they took to save themselves. Five hundred years is a long time to keep alive any memories at all. I hope you can make your relatives see that this is something to be proud of.
              Dentate,

              Yes, the history of Anusim who fled the Inquisition and escaped to New Mexico is a very interesting one. I am most proud of my heritage in New Mexico, as I am proud of all my heritages from around the world (Asian, European, Native American). I think the reluctance in some family members to talk about a Jewish Past is more due to cultural reasons rather than 'shame'. It was just what they did....Not talk about it....for generations. The difficulty I am facing is just getting a DNA sample from people. It's not that relatives are 'afraid' of finding out they have jewish ancestry, many are concerned about submitting their DNA sample to some 'Database' that they are not familiar with. Also, just explaining to an older relative in their 80s just how DNA works and how we can connect it with a Jewish past would be dificult to explain. Making them feel assured that the DNA database is a secure one will also be difficult. I am hoping to make a Jewish connection, as it will confirm many rumors and customs in my family, as well as enrich our knowledge in our family history.

              Comment


              • #8
                I should have noted that J1s also migrated from the Near East to the Mediterranian. From there the pathway turned north along the Atlantic Coast eventually reaching the British Isles. In Europe the highest concentration of J1s is in England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland. For those of Jewish origin the more likely path was via eastern Europe rather than the Mediterranian.
                Last edited by josh w.; 25 August 2005, 07:07 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Breakwater70: Yes, the history of Anusim who fled the Inquisition and escaped to New Mexico is a very interesting one. I am most proud of my heritage in New Mexico, as I am proud of all my heritages from around the world (Asian, European, Native American). I think the reluctance in some family members to talk about a Jewish Past is more due to cultural reasons rather than 'shame'. It was just what they did....Not talk about it....for generations.
                  Agreed. The 'custom' of 'secrecy' amongst Crypto-Jews has it's roots in 'Fear' and not 'shame'. It is not because people were not proud of being Jews, it's because the tradition stems from fear of being burned at the stake, having your children taken away from you or having your property being taken away. In some cases it was all 3. For those of you who are familiar with the concept of 'Genetic Memory', it can stem from that, too. Genetic Memory is sort of a controversal topic. It could be that people inherited these fears. Others were taught these fears and don't even know why they have them. They just know "not to talk about it".
                  Last edited by bobr; 25 August 2005, 07:39 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dentate
                    Breakwater,

                    Isn't life strange? Among Jews there is a certain reluctance to find out that one might have some ancestors who were NOT Jewish.
                    who says they were not jewish some time back or as you know abraham wasnt the first of the line.

                    and yours arent the only ones mine say why bother dead people

                    it seems that imigrants take about 5 generations before they care maybe they wanna forget the hard times

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jim Denning
                      who says they were not jewish some time back or as you know abraham wasnt the first of the line.

                      and yours arent the only ones mine say why bother dead people

                      it seems that imigrants take about 5 generations before they care maybe they wanna forget the hard times
                      THEN COME AN IDIOT LIKE ME AND OPENS THOSE DOORS AND NOBODY WANTS TO TALK TO ME LOL

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        HERE IS A DOOR WITH A LARGE CRACK IN IT


                        i think they are . why?
                        i am from a stone mason in longford ireland 1770ish but half of my 12 marker matchs are askenazi and 2 of five higher marker matches are people with a background inwhich family says they were forced to convert to christianity from jewish. so i am not above thinking maybe thats what happened. but the history of denning is that it is always mispronounced.
                        in 1066 when the normans won britian they sent shepardic jews as administors to collect taxes. like rebeccas dad in ivanhoe lets say his name was dannenberg
                        lets also say they stayed in england for 200 years and the inquisition came and they converted. as a new christian ex jew would you keep berg.i dont think so.
                        if you go the the dannen surname board they dont know if its christain or jewish.
                        i think both.
                        now dannen is variant of denning all these names with dnn are easy to change vowels since they dont sound different. even the G doesnt. so 200 more years and dannen could be denning no problem.
                        now back to what i believed before ftdna
                        mary queen of scots came and the jacobites being catholics and protestants the dennings split and the catholics went to scotland. probably lowland catholics which wasnt good in know scotland. we left scotland when the lady forbes did and went to longford as her stonemasons. 200more years and the forbes came to chelsea. but being irish protestants still wasnt cool. no irish in massachusetts even protestants. so they wrote back to the irish catholics who worked for them.

                        come the 1798 catholic protestant rebelion with the french they were exciled or ran saying to hell with this and came to chelsea 1800s . by the famine we were second generation

                        so besides surnames comes locations and family historys and real history all these are important. most people in genetic genealogy dont take real history into effect.Its the total picture

                        2million more testees and maybe we will know

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          For those of you who are familiar with the concept of 'Genetic Memory', it can stem from that, too. Genetic Memory is sort of a controversal topic. It could be that people inherited these fears. Others were taught these fears and don't even know why they have them. They just know "not to talk about it".[/QUOTE]
                          I also believe that it works both ways I think we carry a genetic memory of who we are, it is this very memory that pushes us to find out and make right all our inner beliefs about our origins. If I had not felt this within myself I would have dismissed this DNA search a long time ago. It is my belief that these same memories are like soul triggers that go off trying to remind us of our true self. Okay I know that sounds kinda mystical but it was precisely what started my search. Call it synchronous or whatever but I have always been a spiritual person and I came across the study of Kabbalah, it was during my studies that something started pulling at me to go to Israel...I mean a hard pulling that made no sense to me. I grew up in Texas and yes under the same strange conditions most cryptojews describe but as yet had not made the connection. Now, there are too many coincidences to argue the fact. After speaking with Mr. Greenspan he gave me a 50/50 shot at her being Semetic the J1b data pool is too small so he cannot commit, but I already knew this in my soul. I will say for the record that my mom was Jewish even if her DNA is shy by a name or two in some data bank.. she sent me the only message that she could and in my heart I will be Jewish and proud of it. Yes I am going to visit Israel and I will convert, I was hoping for more info but the info is already in my heart and no test can measure that. It is the least I can do for them. Thanks mom you don't have to hide anymore.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by breakwater70
                            I would like to test a living brother of my paternal Grandmother to get the Y haplogroup, but this may be too difficult. Many people do not like to give DNA. I am hoping to find distant relatives on these lines from New Mexico that already had their Y-DNA tested, surnames: Lopez, Suazo, Chacon, Chavez. In the meantime, figuring out how to ask a great-uncle to give a DNA sample to determine "Jewishness" might prove difficult....
                            Breakwater,
                            I have only just begun this process and it appears I might have to get one of my Y cousins plastered and whip a swab on him while he's out! This may be the only way to get a sample, but I agree that it shouldn't be this hard. My research into the Franco name has already turned up tons of information all the way from Spain to New Mexico, and Texas where I grew up. But in all the research the one constant is the fear factor. Like you, I hit the wall and out of respect I have to back off so maybe we could start a Cryptojewish data base somehow and try to make it so common that it might dispell some of the fear asscociated with the DNA testing. The New Mexico area seems to have the largest concentration of cryptojewish people do you know if anyone has already addressed this? I am the newbee on the block so it may be an old idea, but I would certainly be willing to share my data in hopes of finding another relative out there in geneoland.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jm138
                              I also believe that it works both ways I think we carry a genetic memory of who we are, it is this very memory that pushes us to find out and make right all our inner beliefs about our origins. If I had not felt this within myself I would have dismissed this DNA search a long time ago.
                              I'm not sure about the idea of genetic memory, but I can relate to what you're saying. I have read that in a number of societies there is some form of ancestor worship or veneration.

                              I think this is only natural with human beings. We are conscious of what has gone before us, through culture and history, and with free will we are also conscious and thinking about the future of our families and society. We want to honor the contributions of our ancestors to our lives and pass on those contributions and make new ones for our descendants. This, it seems to me, is the drive that causes us to want to know who our ancestors were and what they did. And that's called genealogy.

                              Personally, the cause of my becoming involved in genealogy occurred five years ago when I was participating in a study group of Plato's dialogues. I learned that Plato had a couple of extended stays in the Greek colonies in Sicily, where my paternal ancestors were from - Sicily, not the Greek colonies. Previously, like most people, my image of Sicily was the Mafia and poor peasant grandmothers. I half-jokingly resolved to find out if Plato had a fling with a Sicilian woman and I am one of his descendants. I've only gotten back into the early 1700s in some lines so far, so the jury is still out on that question. Now that I've found that my great-grandfather was an abandoned baby, I've come to the field of genetic genealogy to possibly find an answer to that, but also learn about the genetic heritage of Sicily and how it relates to mankind's journey out of Africa and the Middle East.

                              Mike

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X