Got my results online (T2)--what do I do now?

[Parisjune]

Hi all,

I'm really new here. Got my online results today and would like to know what I can do with them. Also, will the written report contain more information, because I didn't get much with the online version.

Thanks for any info.

Parisjune -- a new T2!

[litlnemo]

Hi Parisjune,

I got mine today (well, yesterday now) too. I'm a J*. I have been spending hours Google-searching for information on this.

[josh w.]

There is a fair amount of info on J*s in resarch on Jewish and Semetic populations including Samaritans--See Ftdna library. Dentate is a good resource person on this as well as Ellen Levy(Kaufman?) The Cohen Modal Haplotype is also related.

[dentate]

Ellen Levy-Coffman is indeed a good resource, and is now published on the Internet on the subject of Jewish DNA and anthrogenealogy. Her article can be found at http://www.jogg.info/coffman.htm . This is mainly a critique of previous publications that she asserts contain bias in their interpretation of the results. But, she is worth corresponding with, if you can find some of her rare free time.

The classic Cohen Modal Haplotype is probably J1 or J*, according to Bennett Greenspan as of a few months ago. The issue is rather confusing at the moment at there appear to be many haplotypes (STR, which is what Genographic tests and what FTDNA does as its standard test) that are shared among J*, J1, and J2. It takes a SNP test to determine the true haplogroup. There are people who claim Cohen status in each of these groups and they all have rather similar STR haplotypes, so until a sufficient number of them are SNP tested the "true" Cohen haplogroup remains somewhat in doubt. There is the additional complication that there may in fact be more than one ancient lineage claiming Cohen status.

Be that as it may, J* is a relatively rare type compared to J1 or J2. It certainly is of Middle Eastern origin, and since the Neolithic agricultural expansion from the Middle East into Europe appears to have been a source of J2, but not of J* as far as has been documented, it is a fairly safe bet to say that this J* type indicates ancient Israelite origin if your ancestors are from Europe, unless you have reason to suspect a more recent derivation from the Middle East as Josh W. implied. More information might help, if you are willing to share it here.

[litlnemo]

Questions about J*

I am a female, so it is J* mtDNA, not yDNA. I think the J* you are talking about is the yDNA, correct? (It's so confusing that both kinds are named with letters.) My earliest documented ancestor in the female line is not too far back (late 1800s, Norway), unfortunately.

In the case of the mtDNA, what is the significance in the * in J*, as opposed to J? The Genographic Project just says I am in J, though I see that the 16063C differs from most other J's. There are only 2 exact low-res matches in Mitosearch (and one that has one additional marker besides the 063,069, 126).

Thanks!

[dentate]

Well, that is embarrassing! I suppose since your name is "lilnemo" and Nemo wa male, we made an invalid assumption. Yes, the nomenclature is extremely confusing and similar letter names are used for mtDNA and Y DNA that have nothing to do with each other.

J* with an asterisk generally means that you are part of the J group, but cannot be classified as belonging to any of the currently recognized and described subgroups. Occasionally people seem to use it to mean the group as a whole including subgroups. Similarly, my wife is currently designated M*.

Many of these mtDNA groups were defined well before Y DNA groups were. The original definitions were based on RFLP analysis, a different technique than DNA sequencing which is what FTDNA is using. In many cases the new sequence data can be made to correlate with the old groups defined by RFLP, but in some cases that is still hard to do. I expect these mtDNA definitions eventually will be based on sequencing, so that more information about your subgroup will be available in the future.

In contrast to what I said about Y DNA group J*, mtDNA group J, which is also of Middle Eastern origin, is believed to have arrived in Europe during the Neolithic and is a well recognized type, particularly but not exclusively in Eastern Europe.

Hope this helps.

[josh w.]

Sorry I steered everyone in the wrong direction. As it happens, I am a J(YDNA-J2) ---J(MTDNA-J1). J and her sister T entered Europe at roughly the same time although some subclades of T were first to arrive. There is a discrepancy between Ftdna and National Geographic in terms of migratory paths. Ftdna suggests that the path was via the Mediterranian. National Geographic suggests it was north from the Black Sea to eastern Europe including northeastern Europe. My J1 matches range from Moldova to Lithuania. However, I have found J1's in Finland as well. I suspect that the J* resulted from an east to west Scandinavian migration. (My daughter's origins are from western Norway north of Bergen. She has some Saami physiognomy although her dna has not been tested. Given the presence of Js in Finland, a Saami pathway cannot be ruled out.)

[josh w.]

P.S. Other possible routes for J to Norway are via the Ireland, England, Scotland and Germany.

[josh w.]

Clarification of discrepancy between FTDNA and National Geographic regarding Mtdna J migration. FTDNA sent me information suggesting that Js migrated through the Mediterranian. This applies mainly to J2s who eventually reached the British Isles. National Geographic's chart shows that Js migrated to eastern Europe. This applies mainly to Js and J1s. It is more likely that a J* in Norway resulted from east to west migration in what is now Scandinavia. First of all, most known migration in Scandinavia was from east to west (the Germanic tribes with an ancient homeland on the Baltic and the Saami of Asia). Secondly, most known migration in the North Sea (e.g. the Vikings) has been from north to south rather than from Ireland or England to Norway. (Iceland however is another story.) The key question that remains is when did the migration occur?

[litlnemo]

Thank you! Wow, this is fascinating! I appreciate all the information you've posted.