Ancestry Autosomal Results

[T E Peterman]

Joseph Sparks, father of:

Solomon Sparks, father of:

Reuben Sparks, father of:

Lydia (Sparks) Bauguess, mother of:

Fanny (Bauguess) Eagleton, mother of:

Lydia (Eagleton) Peterman, mother of:

Joe Peterman Jr., father of:

Raymond Peterman, father of:

Timothy Peterman

FF participants in this line include: Timothy Peterman, Raymond Peterman, Melvin Peterman, Paul Peterman, Charles Peterman, Gerald Eagleton, and David Bauguess -all descended from Lydia (Sparks) Bauguess.

Timothy Peterman

[djknox]

If consumer protection agencies had even a remote abillity to understand anything of subtlety (which they don't), they would be all over admixture products.

On second reading I wish to retract the above statement as it is too harsh. Family Finder offers legitimate genealogy research capabilities... albeit limited. And as population finder is just a secondary feature and not the principle feature marketed, there really is no consumer marketing problem. However, I do stand by my opinion that the admixture tools are in their infancy and do not deliver what one would hope for... and likely expect.

[Yaffa]

Joseph Sparks, father of:

Solomon Sparks, father of:

Reuben Sparks, father of:

Lydia (Sparks) Bauguess, mother of:

Fanny (Bauguess) Eagleton, mother of:

Lydia (Eagleton) Peterman, mother of:

Joe Peterman Jr., father of:

Raymond Peterman, father of:

Timothy Peterman

FF participants in this line include: Timothy Peterman, Raymond Peterman, Melvin Peterman, Paul Peterman, Charles Peterman, Gerald Eagleton, and David Bauguess -all descended from Lydia (Sparks) Bauguess.

Timothy Peterman

Do you connect to Temperance Sparks? She has my cousins living with her in 1850 Wilkes census. Rosey Tedder with a son Elijah Tedder age 2. 1860 census Temerance Sparks is head of household again, Rosey Tedder is no longer in the household and Elijah Tedder (son in 1850) is now 12 and female listed as Eliza J Tedder. All the Tedder's in Wilkes are descendants of Harmon Tedder. We have never been able to figure out who Rosie/Rosey Tedder belonged to (her parents). We dont know if her child is Elijah (male) or Eliza (Female) --1860 this child seems to have been left with the Sparks family and we have no idea why or if Rosey Tedder died or took off. Have you come across any Tedders mentioned in Sparks court records? Was Rosey a Sparks with a possible Tedder husband or was she born a Tedder??? Thanks!

[T E Peterman]

Not sure. Have you looked at information from The Sparks Quarterly? They covered many, many of these families.

Timothy Peterman

[Yaffa]

What is The Sparks Quarterly? I have not researched Sparks at all since I dont have them on record in my lines even though they are around us along with your Bauguss family. My cousin and I were curious because this Rosey Tedder is the only Tedder that may have connection to Sparks on record. Temperence Sparks was born in the 1700's and might be the wife of a deceased Sparks .Her husband may have died before 1850 census.??? Will have to go digging on marriages.

[T E Peterman]

The Sparks Quarterly was one of the first family genealogy newsletters to be started. It was in print from sometime in either the late 1940s/ early 1950s down to about 2010 or so & grew to contain nearly 10,000 pages of data. Start at this website:

http://sparksfamilytree.net/

Timothy Peterman

[Yaffa]

Thanks on the Sparks!!! I only find one Temperance Sparks (Spencer) and don't know if she is same in Wilkes?? There is no Tedder listed. The only surname I know on there that might connect Sparks to Tedder is Benge. maybe the answer is in court minutes somewhere.

[MMaddi]

Regardless, MMaddi, nothing you stated above refutes my "colorful observation" that admixture results being produced TODAY, especially for those of N European and/or BRITISH ancestry (as this is where I choose to personally focus), amount to not much more than entertainment value only.

I was being a bit sarcastic when I referred to your "colorful" comments. They actually are slanderous. You claimed that "admixture results, whether at Ancestry or FTDNA, amount to little more than pulling data from one's arse." That's on the verge of accusing these companies of fraud. In fact, you've had to retract your statement below, calling for consumer agencies to investigate FTDNA and other companies for their admixture test results. I'm referring to your post #32 in this thread. You had to admit that you were being "too harsh." This seems to be a common problem you have when discussing genetic genealogy, going over the top and exaggerating in your criticism.

Maybe you could tell me what "DISCRETE SNPs" are aligned to being of Pict, Celtic, Saxon etc. ancestry? Telling someone who is British that there admixture is British isn't worth 100s of dollars to a consumer. No wonder Ancestry, 23&Me and FTDNA databases are full of British clientele ! As for autosomal testing in general, i've got ZERO hits to someone in the UK. So familyfinder, dna.ancestry etc. are not much good for matching anything beyond some quaint American colonial heritage... whoopy!

I couldn't tell you which AIMs are aligned with being Pict, Celtic or Saxon. No population geneticist or commercial testing company makes the claim that they can distinguish those ancestries through autosomal testing. (I did link in my previous post to a map from the People of the British Isles scientific project showing distinct geographic clusters in the UK, based on autosomal testing. That is possible at this time.) Perhaps if there are sufficient ancient remains from those ancestries successfully tested for tens of thousands of AIMs in the future, that sort of admixture can be uncovered. So, why do you even bring this up as a complaint, since no one is making the claim? Sounds like a straw man argument to me.

I sincerely invite a population geneticist to join these forums and provide real insight to why people should be spending money on these tests. Spencer Wells geno project is commendable, and equally ingenious by getting folks to self finance the project. I don't belittle the scientific complexity and efforts involved, only the commercial admixture products on offer - those that claim to tell one what their geographical ethnicity is. If consumer protection agencies had even a remote abillity to understand anything of subtlety (which they don't), they would be all over admixture products. Alas such products are way above their punching weight. This is why I advocate that it behooves commercial providers to give some insight to what value one may extract from the tests, especially wrt forthcoming advancements around the corner. I am not a geneticist (obviously) but I know enough about scientific research and commercial applicability to know that what is to be offered 5 years from now is generally well in progress today. So what will be on offer in the next 2 years is DEFINITELY known today... yet all these forums, and the popular genetic ancestry blogs, conveniently don't even breathe a peep about what's around the corner.

I agree with your statement above which I bolded. FTDNA does have a FAQ page for Population Finder, which I do criticize for not being the best quality admxture test. But at least they do try to explain on the FAQ page what the results may mean. If customers want to read more into their results than warranted, which does happen, you can't blame FTDNA for that.

As you are such a strong advocate of admixture analysis, maybe you could share with everyone why that is? Without any intention to disparage, either there really isn't anything around the corner worth talking about, or there's a bad strain of NKS syndrome in the blogosphere. I've seen a few fleeting mentions about new and improved FTDNA tools, yet no press releases or announcements to the public of immanent product enhancements or, less I be too optimistic, new products altogether.

Maybe I'm showing how uncool I am, but I have no idea what NKS syndrome means. Please explain.

I've explained to you in other postings that I think I've gotten a very interesting clue about some previously unknown non-Italian ancestry through a combination of Relative Finder and Ancestry Finder matches at 23andMe and results from some of the third party admixture tests. And I believe that sort of thing is certainly possible with other people. So, it seems to me that in certain situations, admixture tests can be a useful tool for genealogical research. When I've posted about that, you've either ignored it or disparaged it. I have no idea why someone like you who takes pride in his abilities in genealogical research would reject a tool that may offer clues to uncover previously unknown ancestry. So, I guess we have a classic failure to communicate.

Regarding FTDNA's plans for the future, you'll have to ask them. I do know that they recently asked Family Finder customers to fill out a survey about their ethnic/geographic ancestry. This seems to be a means to improve the usefulness of Population Finder results by tweaking the algorithm, using the results of the survey. Why they've issued no press release on those plans, I don't know. Maybe they'll do that when they've made the changes. Again, ask them.

[Mlawton]

Thanks on the Sparks!!! I only find one Temperance Sparks (Spencer) and don't know if she is same in Wilkes?? There is no Tedder listed. The only surname I know on there that might connect Sparks to Tedder is Benge. maybe the answer is in court minutes somewhere.

There's a marriage bond from Surry Co. NC, from which Wilkes was formed so next door:

Wm Sparks - Mary Benge - 5 September 1844. Bondsman: George Sparks.

Don't know if this is one of your Benge. Not finding your Tedders in any Sparks Quarterly issues, other than the census listing you mentioned. Since Temperance was HoH, it would make sense that Rosey was her daughter?? Possibly from a previous marriage, or Rosey was a Sparks married to Tedder? My 4xgrGrandfather Matthew Sparks lived in Wilkes County for a time before moving to Georgia, but none of your names are familiar to me.

On the original topic, this 4th cousin has sent for a FF test here at FTDNA. So I will be very curious if her results include me as a match. If so, it would mean that she indeed does have enough inherited shared dna with me to predict the relationship, in which case I do not understand Ancestry's methods at all. But we shall see. I will report back when I know the results.

[Yaffa]

There's a marriage bond from Surry Co. NC, from which Wilkes was formed so next door:

Wm Sparks - Mary Benge - 5 September 1844. Bondsman: George Sparks.

Don't know if this is one of your Benge. Not finding your Tedders in any Sparks Quarterly issues, other than the census listing you mentioned. Since Temperance was HoH, it would make sense that Rosey was her daughter?? Possibly from a previous marriage, or Rosey was a Sparks married to Tedder? My 4xgrGrandfather Matthew Sparks lived in Wilkes County for a time before moving to Georgia, but none of your names are familiar to me.

On the original topic, this 4th cousin has sent for a FF test here at FTDNA. So I will be very curious if her results include me as a match. If so, it would mean that she indeed does have enough inherited shared dna with me to predict the relationship, in which case I do not understand Ancestry's methods at all. But we shall see. I will report back when I know the results.

Either Rosey was her daughter and married to an Unk male Tedder (no marriage) or Rosie/Rosey was a single parent living in the Sparks home with her child that got her surname because the child may have been born out of wedlock. (We have a lot of NPE in our lines) The Sparks/Benge marriage your talking about is Thomas Benge's family (???) and our Benge's are not Thomas's. You will find a James Benge/Elizabeth Tedor (Tedder) marriage in Wilkes 1820. James was born in Surry but it is believed (not proven)his father was Samuel and Samuel is not Thomas's son. Our James was back and forth to Surry and Wilkes. 2 of his children married in Yadkin one of those marriages has Benj Sparks as JP and preformed the marriage. Benge Gap aka Benge in Jobs Cabin Wilkes is named after James Benge.

Good luck on Family Finder if your cousin matches. Our Ancestry is pending. no results yet. We on FF have no matches to Sparks and not many of our known cousins have tested at FTDNA. Im hoping some of have tested at ancestry.

[ragnar]

Wow, I have a distant cousin match on Ancestry whose ethnic results says 100% unknown! I looked at the tree & most of the ancestors are England, some Irish, a few Scottish,1 French, a couple Netherlands. English & Netherlands traced back to 1600's. The rest to the early 1800's & the 1700's. Not very confidence inspiring...Maybe that was one of their first ones tested. That match should ask for a re-look...

[EdwardRHill]

Wow, I have a distant cousin match on Ancestry whose ethnic results says 100% unknown! I looked at the tree & most of the ancestors are England, some Irish, a few Scottish,1 French, a couple Netherlands. English & Netherlands traced back to 1600's. The rest to the early 1800's & the 1700's. Not very confidence inspiring...Maybe that was one of their first ones tested. That match should ask for a re-look...

I was told by phone when I called Ancestry "Other" could mean that person wanted to keep ethnic private and maybe "Unknown" the same that being my guess. Why that would give you a low confidence I don't know. What about the other two thousand or so matches you have are they saying the same? Its not always Ancestry fault and may have another reason behind it.

[EdwardRHill]

Wow, I have a distant cousin match on Ancestry whose ethnic results says 100% unknown! I looked at the tree & most of the ancestors are England, some Irish, a few Scottish,1 French, a couple Netherlands. English & Netherlands traced back to 1600's. The rest to the early 1800's & the 1700's. Not very confidence inspiring...Maybe that was one of their first ones tested. That match should ask for a re-look...

It also might mean someone opted out of the Diversity Project but also another guess of mine.

[ragnar]

Well if they wanted to keep their ethnic results private, then they wouldn't have posted a tree including ethnic locations, so I don't think that is it... I am slowly plowing my way through the other matches & so far no one else's has looked like that.

[tomcat]

Wow, I have a distant cousin match on Ancestry whose ethnic results says 100% unknown! I looked at the tree & most of the ancestors are England, some Irish, a few Scottish,1 French, a couple Netherlands. English & Netherlands traced back to 1600's. The rest to the early 1800's & the 1700's. Not very confidence inspiring...Maybe that was one of their first ones tested. That match should ask for a re-look...

Isn't the standard explanation for such a result that the profile resembles multiple populations and cannot be reliably attributed?

Of course it could be attributed to a catch-all Northeast European category but such generalities are not what users want.