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  • #76
    Originally posted by rob60 View Post
    HI Again : the Native People of the Gaspe Region are as far as I can tell are part of the Mi'Kmaq tribe.
    Historically, at the very least Mi'kmaq, Maliseet, and Abenaki. Maliseet mainly went to New England, while some Abenaki are still there but are much lower in numbers than Mi'kmaq people.

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    • #77
      My third great grandmother was French from Quebec - Levesque, and her mother was a Landry. In my French ancestry I have found some ancestors who did have Native wives but as far as I can tell all my Quebecois ancestors were European. I do have some African dna as well as small amounts of Siberian or NE Asian or Siberian/North American depending on the test. This might come from my Ukrainian ancestry as well. There is a family story of Native American in our ancestry but I haven't found proof in the paperwork.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by cokie View Post
        My third great grandmother was French from Quebec - Levesque, and her mother was a Landry. In my French ancestry I have found some ancestors who did have Native wives but as far as I can tell all my Quebecois ancestors were European. I do have some African dna as well as small amounts of Siberian or NE Asian or Siberian/North American depending on the test. This might come from my Ukrainian ancestry as well. There is a family story of Native American in our ancestry but I haven't found proof in the paperwork.
        Hi Cousin!
        I have both Landrys and Levesques in my tree.
        And I also have NA DNA and no paper trail to show where it came from.
        Keep in mind that the french priests were quite willing to give NA babies
        a french name and bap them. There was a stipend for the priests and families for each baptism.
        Julie

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        • #79
          Julie Ann - I'm investigating a woman named Marie Madeline Richard dit Arpot who married Jean Francoise Lienard dit Durbois 1698- does that ring a bell? Their g grandaughter Marie Loriot married Charles F. Landry in 1783. JF Lienard dit Durbois did have one or two Abenaki wives, that's a fact, but wether Marie Richard was Native or European isn't really known. Some sources have her as a Native.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by cokie View Post
            Julie Ann - I'm investigating a woman named Marie Madeline Richard dit Arpot who married Jean Francoise Lienard dit Durbois 1698- does that ring a bell? Their g grandaughter Marie Loriot married Charles F. Landry in 1783. JF Lienard dit Durbois did have one or two Abenaki wives, that's a fact, but wether Marie Richard was Native or European isn't really known. Some sources have her as a Native.
            Hi Cokie, this is always a lot of fun and a challenge to track down the possible NA ancestry in our family.

            BTW Jean Francois Lienard‘s grandparents were my 9th great grandparents. His mother was a 9th great aunt, she was a Pelletier and they were from Sillery, the site of Canada’s first Indian reservation. This family was well known to marry NA. Many of the Pelletier offspring were Metis. I am related to the Pelletiers via several of my Quebec lines. I was not able to trace Loriot/Laundry to ascertain their connection to me, but it is no doubt there! And also one of Jean Francois' siblings married a Leduc, my great grandmother was a Leduc.

            I see the problem you are having with Marie Madeline.

            Yes Jean Francois looks like he was married twice that I can see, his first wife was Paule Ouripehenemick, clearly an Amerindienne, with a documented paper trail of NA parentage. His second wife was Marie Madeline Arpot and she shows as having parents both from France, but is listed on many sites as Abenaki. Some have pointed out that her parents are not in the Drouin Records, or other official doucments. And there is some discrepancy regarding her father's documentation. The internet discussion mostly leans towards Marie Madeline being NA.

            Tanguay records, a definitive source, but has been known to be wrong on occasion, states that Mary Madeline was NA. The internet discussion about her states that she was Abenaki. If you can read French or use the Google translater you can read the Quebec researchers argue about Marie Madeleine Arpot. There is also a bit of an underground Quebec site which gives the unvarnished history of our Quebec ancestors, and that site also lists Mary Madeline as Sauvage.

            Marie Madeleine Richard Arpot is referred to on many sites as: Marie Madeleine Sauvagesse, Marie Madeleine Arpot Richard, Marie Madeleine Wabanquiquoi, Marie Madeleine Arpot Wabanquiquoi and Apolline la sauvagesse

            However the discussion does not seem conclusive. Marie Madeleine has two listed French parents, though the documentation of this seems a bit shaky. Sometimes even with two listed French parents, the children were Metis. In once case a French man came to Quebec, had quite a few children with a French mother listed on the baps. The problem was that the French wife in question had never left Paris. He was thought to have had a country wife. These were NA women, and often the priest gave the children French names and baptized them. There was a stipend for each baptism in a family to encourage population growth. The French King stopped immigration from France early on, as he did not wish to depopulate France to populate Quebec or New France. So he sent over the Filles De Roi, with doweries and then paid handsome stipends for large families.

            Some of the filles do roi were said to be Metis or full blooded NA. The French priests sent some of the Indian children back to France to be raised by the nuns, and were sent back to Quebec as filles de roi, to be married to the Quebec men.

            I am not saying this is the case with Marie Madeline of course. It is possible that she was 100% European but was called NA in some confusion with the first wife. Or perhaps some stigma in those days if you married a man with an NA wife and children.

            The bottom line is that there is no documented paper trail or other verification of her NA status. Just informal discussion and folklore, which may or may not be accurate. If I can find any other info about Marie Madeleine I will let you know!

            Julie

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            • #81
              Julie - You summed it up pretty good, I've read just about all that before, also Marie's given father Marin Richard also went by Arpot, however there's no birth record for Marie in existence. I haven't looked at the birth record of Marin Richard and Marie Grandjean's other children but I beleive they all exist and that might be something to look at in this situation.
              Jean Francoise's children by his NA wive(s) did state on their marriage records or something that their mother was NA, however none of Marie Richard's children did this, apparently.
              Very tantalizing mystery, we have to keep at it and someday will find the truth! If we can find other descendants from this couple with NA dna that would be good.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by cokie View Post
                Julie - You summed it up pretty good, I've read just about all that before, also Marie's given father Marin Richard also went by Arpot, however there's no birth record for Marie in existence. I haven't looked at the birth record of Marin Richard and Marie Grandjean's other children but I beleive they all exist and that might be something to look at in this situation.
                Jean Francoise's children by his NA wive(s) did state on their marriage records or something that their mother was NA, however none of Marie Richard's children did this, apparently.
                Very tantalizing mystery, we have to keep at it and someday will find the truth! If we can find other descendants from this couple with NA dna that would be good.
                More and more interesting. There is no bap for for Marie? But there are baps for her sibs, the other offspring of her parents? This gets more and more curious. It was French law that priests must record all baps. And it is really unusual for most sibs to have records, and one not. And the Drouin marriage records for the children do not list Marie as NA? Do you have the marriage record for Marie and Jean Lienard?

                Tanguay lists some birth information for one of Marie's girls and lists the mother as: Wabanquiquois Marie-Madeleine Arpot.

                So it may be a battle between Drouin and Tanguay, which one do you believe.
                But the missing Drouins are a mystery...

                I think the priests would indicate a full blooded NA if he/she had coverted to Catholocism, but I do not think the priests would necessarily indicate Metis. My guess is that if Marie is Abenaki, she might be Metis, not full NA. Another thing that could happen, is that there were NA slaves or servants, the master of the house might have a child by one of them, and this child raised as one of the children of the European wife.

                Cokie have you posted to the Quebec message board at Anc.com?
                They are very helpful and some of them live in Quebec and can drive over to the original records repository and look up things for you.....

                In terms of DNA, I think it is going to be too long ago, for Marie's DNA to show up in current descendants in a quantity that would be measurable. Perhaps others can weigh in... but that is over 300 yrs ago with lots of outbreeding between now and then.

                I do know for a fact that that the Drouin records did not always indicate Metis status. I myself tested positive for NA DNA, but I have a rock solid paper trail for 400 yrs, Drouin records stating only French ancestry. So we know that all those French names in the Drouin records did not reflect the correct ancestry. I also have pictures of my grandfather's cousins and uncles that were obviously NA in appearance, but on paper would seem totally french.

                Julie
                Last edited by Julie Ann; 24 November 2012, 01:24 PM.

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                • #83
                  Is there some speculation that your ancestor Marie was adopted? If you know the month/year and place of birth, go through the records searching for a likely candidate. I found one of my ancestors, Gilbert Desjardin, this way. He was on the 1871 census, but I could never find a baptismal record for him. Finally one day I stumbled upon a baby born in the right place, month, and year, named only 'Gilbert' and listed as being born to unknown parents. The sponsors for his baptism were people who were living nearby him on the 1871 census. So enough of the information fit together for me to be fairly sure that this was my ancestor. Unfortunately there's really no way of knowing who his actual parents were.

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                  • #84
                    Alison - nothing to indicate she was adopted. Unknown birthplace is all we have.

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