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  • TexasYaYa
    replied
    Originally posted by Biblioteque View Post
    TexasYaYa, At Gedmatch, the 3 kits of Liz and Randol do NOT match your half sister, Tricia. If you do a one-to-one autosomally at GEDmatch that will be proven. Liz and Randol are from your mother's side. Tricia is from your father's side.
    Thanks for clarifying that for me. I was really about to go bonkers ​​​​ I feel for Liz because she keeps hitting brick walls. We think one of my mom’s got pregnant out of wedlock and that’s where she comes in.

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  • Biblioteque
    replied
    prarielad, yes, many thanks for your comprehensive analyses and your sharing. You are always appreciated.

    So you are saying when we look at an X, generally speaking, we do not know whether the X, or portions thereof, came from the maternal, or the paternal side, unless it has been phased?
    Last edited by Biblioteque; 22nd September 2019, 09:20 AM.

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  • KATM
    replied
    prairielad, thank you very much for your detailed explanation and the X chromosome illustration so I and others could understand. I have done similar testing with my family, but unfortunately my mother never did DNA testing before she died.

    While you have more of your relatives tested than I, I do have four close relatives tested on my father's side. I have myself and my five siblings tested. On my mother's side, I have three close relatives tested. There are also two known maternal second cousins to me (from "the old country") tested at MyHeritage, and various other second and other cousins who have tested at other companies, all of which I can use with DNA Painter, at least.

    I have not yet done any Visual Phasing with these kits, though, so your example is very interesting to me. I hope I can do more analysis as you've done.

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  • Biblioteque
    replied
    TexasYaYa, At Gedmatch, the 3 kits of Liz and Randol do NOT match your half sister, Tricia. If you do a one-to-one autosomally at GEDmatch that will be proven. Liz and Randol are from your mother's side. Tricia is from your father's side.
    Last edited by Biblioteque; 21st September 2019, 09:22 PM.

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  • prairielad
    replied
    Originally posted by KATM View Post

    To be sure I understand, you are saying that your mother and her sister both inherited their father's X, which is not recombined, and then your mother passed this same unrecombined paternal X chromosome to your sister, so that she matches her maternal aunt on the same full X (as well as her mother). It is a paternal X that has been passed down intact, which came from your mother's father to her and her sister (your maternal aunt), as the father got it from his mother.

    I got a bit confused when you said "My sister and my maternal aunt share along the full length of X, due to how recombination happened when my sister inherited random mixture of our mothers maternal X (same segment that is shared with aunt)," since that does not seem likely to be "the full length of X" chromosome that your mother and aunt (and sister) all match completely. The rest of the sentence was clear.

    I have done extensive phasing of my families results.
    I have tested myself and 5 siblings, my father and 3 of his full siblings, my mother and 3 of her full siblings, my fathers paternal 1st cousin (son of my Grandfathers brother) and my fathers paternal 1C1R (Granddaughter of my Grandfathers sister)

    Following picture depicts my families X Chromosome inheritance. (does not show my sisters paternal X, images is only show our maternal X inheritance)
    My mother and her sister match along their entire paternal X (same father), as well they match along a segment of their maternal X.
    My sister (sibling 1) shows full matching to this sister of our mother, not due to inheriting my mothers full paternal X, but due to how my mothers two X's recombined to form a single maternal X to my sister.
    My sister just happened to inherit a segment of my mothers maternal X which my mother also shares with her sister (my Aunt), the rest of my sisters X is from my mothers paternal X.
    Thus it "looks" like my sister is sharing a full X with our aunt, but my sisters single X is matching my Aunts paternal X for some segments and matching my Aunts maternal X for the other segments.

    Note my sister 4 and 6 on image are full base pair matching along their entire X, each inherited my mothers full maternal Chromosome.
    Attached Files

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  • TexasYaYa
    replied
    Originally posted by Biblioteque View Post
    https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4

    TexasYaYa, Your top 4 matches at GEDmatch in the 224-265cMs range after Tricia (half sister) seem to be from your mother's side because none of them in a one-to-one comparison match Tricia who is from your father's side. The 3 kits of Liz from my experience look to be her dna from 3 different testing companies, rather from dna from a bro/sis of hers.

    The dna painter above will help you with relationships. This is a guide, without crossover/recombination factored in, so there are variables.

    Do you know any of your top matches (3 kits of Liz and randolj1)?

    I guess my post is gratuitous because I now see that KATM had already wrapped it up. Thank you, KATM.
    I know that Liz is also adopted and that’s why she has had so much testing from different companies. Jody Randol is on my mothers side, also adopted. Are you saying they matched my “half sister” as well? If so now I’m really confused. However my maternal grandmother and grandfather were both adopted. My grandmother was given to a “sweat home” when she was 5 because her parents couldn’t afford all the kids. I feel like I’m in a “Flowers in the Attic” book right now.

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  • Biblioteque
    replied
    https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4

    TexasYaYa, Your top 4 matches at GEDmatch in the 224-265cMs range after Tricia (half sister) seem to be from your mother's side because none of them in a one-to-one comparison match Tricia who is from your father's side. The 3 kits of Liz from my experience look to be her dna from 3 different testing companies, rather from dna from a bro/sis of hers.

    The dna painter above will help you with relationships. This is a guide, without crossover/recombination factored in, so there are variables.

    Do you know any of your top matches (3 kits of Liz and randolj1)?

    I guess my post is gratuitous because I now see that KATM had already wrapped it up. Thank you, KATM.
    Last edited by Biblioteque; 21st September 2019, 03:29 PM.

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  • KATM
    replied
    Originally posted by TexasYaYa View Post

    My mom didn’t have another child because she had an emergency hysterectomy when I was born. I do have a lot of maternal relatives and she didn’t match with any of them, but we do have shared 200ish 3,4 etc cousins.
    Okay, thank you for the further information. It sounds like the answer is that your father is the father of your Ancestry match, so she is your paternal half-sister, and the connection is solved.

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  • KATM
    replied
    Originally posted by prairielad View Post
    I will give a few examples of this:
    My mother and her younger sister are the same age as their nieces and nephews, children of their older siblings (oldest sister was born in 1929, my mother and sister born late 40's, all full siblings)
    My sister and my maternal aunt share along the full length of X, due to how recombination happened when my sister inherited random mixture of our mothers maternal X (same segment that is shared with aunt) and our mother paternal X (aunt and mother have identical paternal X from father)
    To be sure I understand, you are saying that your mother and her sister both inherited their father's X, which is not recombined, and then your mother passed this same unrecombined paternal X chromosome to your sister, so that she matches her maternal aunt on the same full X (as well as her mother). It is a paternal X that has been passed down intact, which came from your mother's father to her and her sister (your maternal aunt), as the father got it from his mother.

    I got a bit confused when you said "My sister and my maternal aunt share along the full length of X, due to how recombination happened when my sister inherited random mixture of our mothers maternal X (same segment that is shared with aunt)," since that does not seem likely to be "the full length of X" chromosome that your mother and aunt (and sister) all match completely. The rest of the sentence was clear.


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  • TexasYaYa
    replied
    Originally posted by KATM View Post

    Were there shared matches to any people you could definitely identify as on your father's side? This would give positive evidence that the match is paternal, rather than by eliminating a maternal relationship and assuming a paternal one.

    Do you have some maternal relatives who have tested at Ancestry, OR uploaded to GEDmatch? Or perhaps none of your maternal relatives have done any DNA testing for genealogy/ethnicity. Are you sure that there is no possibility that your mother could have had a child within 5 years of having you, and gave her up? I'm just considering all possibilities, to eliminate some of them.
    My mom didn’t have another child because she had an emergency hysterectomy when I was born. I do have a lot of maternal relatives and she didn’t match with any of them, but we do have shared 200ish 3,4 etc cousins.

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  • KATM
    replied
    Originally posted by TexasYaYa View Post
    I know it has to be on the paternal side because she had no matches with my mother.
    Were there shared matches to any people you could definitely identify as on your father's side? This would give positive evidence that the match is paternal, rather than by eliminating a maternal relationship and assuming a paternal one.

    Do you have some maternal relatives who have tested at Ancestry, OR uploaded to GEDmatch? Or perhaps none of your maternal relatives have done any DNA testing for genealogy/ethnicity. Are you sure that there is no possibility that your mother could have had a child within 5 years of having you, and gave her up? I'm just considering all possibilities, to eliminate some of them.

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  • TexasYaYa
    replied
    I know it has to be on the paternal side because she had no matches with my mother. She can’t be my niece because my brother was 8 years old. I have confirmed she can’t be an aunt because my grandmothers were both in their 60’s and had both had hysterectomies in their 40’s. Therefore a half sibling had to be the only option. As far as the other questions about matches, I don’t understand enough how to use gedmatch to be able to answer.

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  • KATM
    replied
    I misstated the part about siblings ("there are no siblings for either the father of TexasYaYa, or her match at Ancestry"). I should have said that from what we know, Texas YaYa's father has a sister, and TexasYaYa has a brother, but the match (as far as is known) does not have a sibling. Although the amount of shared DNA could be shared by a niece/nephew (or even a grand-niece/nephew), it doesn't seem that the Ancestry match is a niece from the known sibling information given.

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  • Biblioteque
    replied
    KATM, thank you for further analyzing this. So the ball is in TexasYaYa's court, and we will hope to hear from her.

    Also, hope Dr. Ann Turner will opine.
    Last edited by Biblioteque; 21st September 2019, 12:24 PM.

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  • KATM
    replied
    prairielad, if the most likely relationship is either half sibling or double first cousin (per Shared DNA Project and DNA Detective statistics), and the two possibilities given by TexasYaYa are that her match could be either the child of her brother or her aunt, then do you think based on the One-to-One comparison at GEDmatch (1959.9 cM half-identical), it shows they are half siblings?

    Although it's also a possible relationship, TexasYaYa has eliminated the possibility of niece/nephew. From what information has been provided so far, it seems that there are no siblings for either the father of TexasYaYa, or her match at Ancestry. TexasYaYa seems to have one sibling, a brother who was too young to be the Ancestry match's father. We haven't seen that any other matches for TexasYaYa and her Ancestry match show up as aunts/uncles or niece/nephew.

    It seems to me that the only way they could be half siblings is via TexasYaYa's father, because if the match was the child of TexasYaYa's aunt, they would be first cousins, and the amount of shared DNA would be less. And, double first cousins would share sizable Fully Identical Regions, which apparently isn't the case here. You've said that it's possible that TexasYaYa and her Ancestry match could be maternal half sisters, vs. paternal via TexasYaYa's father. Couldn't TexasYaYa clear this up by viewing the Ancestry match's shared matches with her? If TexasYaYa can identify any of the shared matches at either Ancestry or GEDmatch as either paternal or maternal, wouldn't that answer that question?

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