Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Question about batches

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Question about batches

    Okay, i have a problem.

    Firstly though, i understand that the atDNA, for example, is done in batches (= plate?) of 24, this is from recent information; with at-, y-, and mtDNA all done in 24 samples per plate at the same time.

    I did both atDNA and yDNA and they are given the same batch number and date: please, does this mean that a kit with any or all of these three tests is in the same batch at the same time?

    Not sure where else to ask this, as it is not a grumble or grip but a simple enquiry.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Zed; 24 June 2015, 05:05 AM.

  • #2
    Different meaning of the word batch!

    Batch at FTDNA means a group of the vials that are considered as moved from waiting outside of the lab to being inside the lab. That happens once a week.

    You cannot derive any meaning out of the batch number. In particular, as you are probably aware, different tests take different time to complete - even in the same batch. Also tests of the same type are not in any way guaranteed to be completed in the order they were transferred to the lab ("batched") - when considering the same type of the test, one with an earlier batch number is not guaranteed to be completed earlier.

    W. (Mr.)

    P.S.
    Just ignore the word batch and the number associated with it. Additionally, the expected completion time is only a very general guideline and the ETA might be changed (=moved to a later date).

    W. (Mr.)

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the answer W. (Mr.): it has added usefully to my knowledge here.

      To further clarify — i hope!

      I don‘t use the word ’batch’ for ’batch number’, but i agree that this means in this context —as you give it— the vials moved into the lab, they being batched, to be put on a plate.

      Reiterating, i recently read somewhere that the atDNA tests are done as 24 per plate, and that all three different tests can be done at once — perhaps here meaning the vials moved into the lab at once.

      I have for FF and Y-DNA67 dates for ordered, batched, and completed, all with same batch number, so as the batch number applies to the ordered date perhaps the batch number is allocated then; the first two respectively per test have the same respective dates, the ordering dates obviously, the batched dates implying that the two tests‘ vials went into the lab on the same date; the completed dates are differing by six days (the Y with the earliest completion date but taking longer to be completed, as done in stages, so the six days applies only to the first date given).

      I need to know for certain the procedure here. Essentially: 1. whether the two tests‘ vials can go into the lab at once, which is implied by the record of my tests, so until evidence to the contrary i take this as yes; and 2. the two tests can be done on the same plate or not — possibly no. There is a reason for my needing to know this (and it’s not because i’m touched, although some may think this). I hope that this is clear.

      Thanks again.
      Last edited by Zed; 24 June 2015, 10:27 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        If you "need" to know then you should address your question directly to the company. The only answers you will get on the forum are based on incomplete information and an element of supposition. Not worth paying much attention to batch numbers.

        Comment


        • #5
          I have no first hand knowledge of the FTDNA lab.

          But after reading what was published on the Internet about FTDNA, I gather that:
          * at FTDNA each test (mtDNA, Y STR, autosomal DNA) is done separately using different equipment for each type of the test, even if you order all three at the same time;
          * X chromosome SNP results come as a byproduct of autosomal DNA test (Family Finder);
          * X chromosome STR results are obtained in a separate test (don't know whether the equipment is shared with some other test);
          * Big Y (SNPs) is a separate test using separate equipment.

          I do not know enough about individual SNP tests and Y SNP test panels.

          Mr. W.

          P.S.
          See the following for some information about equipment used by different DNA testing companies:
          Last edited by dna; 25 June 2015, 01:13 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            @Zed

            Some of the information you are asking for likely constitutes internal business know-how.

            However, you may want to know that the lab that performs actual testing has certifications that allow for the lab results (not from FTDNA!) to be used as evidence in courts and by the US government for immigration purposes...

            Mr. W.

            Comment


            • #7
              Zed, I posted this to another thread recently; it's a YouTube video that shows how the different tests are processed:
              FTDNA webinar from Feb. 2015, entitled “The Ideal Life of a Family Tree DNA Kit.”
              The "Post Office to FTDNA" part starts at about 14:30, then shows how the kit is handled at FTDNA. The actual presentation is about 36 min. long, then there is a Q&A from the original live webinar.

              Perhaps it may be helpful to you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks guys for of all those further replies! Understanding is happening.

                *************

                @LynCra

                When i have sufficient knowledge then i would contact the company. At the moment i’m trying to unravel the mystery of the results of my tests done early last year, and need to know what happens after the samples are received; i don‘t ”need” to know but need to know.

                *************

                @KATM

                Excellent video — many thanks for this. Now much better informed about it all, terminologically and about the procedure.

                From video:

                20:21 ~ 22:15. The Vial. This is the container that a sample is in sent to FTDNA. For each kit one vial goes into cold storage in boxes, the other goes off to the lab.

                22:15 ~ 23:00. Incubation. In lab; firstly, sample from vial, one each from twelve different kits, are transfered manually into (what looks like) twelve trays (the origin of the number ’twelve’ regarding all this), and are incubated over night.

                23:00 ~ 23:28. Extraction Robot — First Use. Trays (unspecified number) then go through the extraction process by the extraction robot. (Extracted DNA into new container type?; automated?)

                23:28 ~ 24:32. Into Robotic Freezer. Extracted DNA stored on storage plates in freezer at -20° C until ready to be tested.

                24:32 ~ 25:05. Out of Robotic Freezer. Robotic freezer programmed to pull out storage plates wanted for testing.

                25:05 ~ 25:40. Extraction Robot — Second Use. Storage plates are sent back to extraction robot to extract a smaller amount of DNA from each storage sample into another container type (a vial?; automated?) The remainder of smaller sample is returned to the robotic freezer.

                25:40 ~ 27:18. Test Plate. Some from each of the smaller samples (in vials?) are added to new test plate by being put into up to ninety-six (8 by 12) wells in this test plate. The ninety-six wells can, for example, include different stages of a Y-test, and-or up to ninety-six different Y samples.

                27:18 ~ 30:11. Lab Processing. Processing on different machines of yDNA, FF, myDNA, Big Y, &c.

                40:13 ~ 42:15. Questions. First two, being the same, to be answered: answer is incorrect, only goes into contamination issues later in procedure, not mix-ups; for incubation there occurs manual transfer of samples used for all tests to be done.
                Last edited by Zed; 26 June 2015, 03:30 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Please read the following recent announcement from FTDNA
                  http://forums.familytreedna.com/announcement.php?f=214 Technical Update
                  (I am imagining that the last paragraph is of interest to you).

                  Also you might want to know that (sometimes?) there is a step that involves manual data entry, for example STR values from Y-DNA67 test are/used to be entered by hand.

                  W. (Mr.)
                  Last edited by dna; 26 June 2015, 06:52 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Firstly, one correction to my previous post.

                    Incubation. There appears to be at least one more incubator to the left in the presented slide, so this may be the origin of the ’twenty-four samples per plate’, i put twelve as that is all that i can see there.

                    *************

                    Thanks for that Mr. W., it is of interest to me. The phrase used here is ’to fix problems’, which is essentially that which has been used when there has been a mix-up, obviously by retesting using the spare vial in cold storage.

                    These links below are some that i’ve found that involve all three of the main DNA-test companies:

                    http://www.smh.com.au/world/dna-test...718-10fxl.html

                    http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfutur...3andme-a-caut/

                    http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.co...ationship.html

                    http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.co...-adoptees.html

                    http://dna-explained.com/2014/06/13/ancestry-kit-mixup/

                    The last one see comment #5 onwards for a mix-up at FTDNA in february last year — and it is said to be concerning adoption and to involve all three tests (Y, Mito, and FF) of which i now can see how this could happen. There was also at FTDNA another one in september —or maybe a bit earlier— last year (from personal communication, here involving atDNA-test concerning correspondant).

                    It seems to be a touchy subject —should mine be wrong… …consequences— and i’ve got nowhere with it through group and private communication; hence, it is over a year for my bringing it up here.

                    Not quite directly relevant to the title of this thread if i give more on this, but very briefly it could explain my odd results. Unfortunately, i don‘t have anyone closely related that i feel approaching to ask for a sample to compare my results to — a long story that i’m sure is common with adoptees. It really needs a thread in itself to explain why the results that i got don‘t make sense.

                    Thanks for your patience so far,
                    Zed

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      @zed

                      I often have a luxury that I can test multiple members of my family and thus the results are getting confirmed.

                      In your case, if testing Ancestry.com is an option, you can test there your autosomal DNA, and for verifying other type of tests see

                      Mr. W.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I met maternal aunt for less than half a minute, my mother getting to her first—she had earlier wanted to meet me. One of her daughters, being a first cousin to me, lives about 80 km (50 miles) or so away, but i’m too frightened to approach her just to introduce myself, she probably not even knowing of my existence.


                        Awaiting a debitcard —the bank (which wasn‘t officially a bank until last year) that i’m with has only recently issued them, hoping no problem here— as otherwise can‘t use 23andMe or Ancestry (i think that the latter is now being available from New Zealand), this being another reason for not bringing to this forum.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dna View Post
                          Different meaning of the word batch!


                          You cannot derive any meaning out of the batch number. In particular, as you are probably aware, different tests take different time to complete - even in the same batch. Also tests of the same type are not in any way guaranteed to be completed in the order they were transferred to the lab ("batched") - when considering the same type of the test, one with an earlier batch number is not guaranteed to be completed earlier.

                          W. (Mr.)
                          So does that mean that people who are having the same tests, in the same batch numbers, can expect their results at different times?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by T0pcat View Post
                            So does that mean that people who are having the same tests, in the same batch numbers, can expect their results at different times?
                            Yes

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LynCra View Post
                              Yes
                              Unbelievable!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X