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  • cut to the chase

    I was wondering if there was any service provider/agency which specialized in 'dry genetics', that was available to process and analyze YDNA results with a view to tracing an adopted persons ancestry, forwards from previous to current generations . Clearly , an adopted person rarely knows their fathers surname and adoption records are not usually particularly forthcoming. There seem to be so many possible permutations of matches that anyone seeking clarity is not able to establish the relevance of these matches , or any familial link. Rather than continue to upgrade to ever more baffling products through FTDNA , I would much rather pay an expert to analyze my DNA results, explain their processes and come up with a paternal family name that was relevant to me. Any suggestions?

  • #2
    You are not looking for dry genetics, as that would not offer you the information you desire, unless someone from your unknown to you close family happens to test.

    You are looking for a researcher (agency) that would investigate your ancestry using your DNA (specifically the Family Finder and Y DNA matches) as one of the primary research avenues.

    W. (Mr.)

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    • #3
      To add to what the previous poster wrote, merely having an expert look at your test results would not give you any useful information. In order to establish a genealogical connection to find the surname of the biological father and possibly the specific man who is the father, you have to compare your results to databases of others' results.

      You can only come up with the sort of information you're looking for by finding close or exact yDNA matches at the 37 or more marker level. Also, finding 2nd cousins or closer through Family Finder could also lead to the birth father, although putting together information from a number of more distant matches may establish a pattern to provide clues.

      In order to compare with the genetic genealogy databases, the most efficient way to do that is to test with the company that maintains the database. These companies are set up to use their access to all the results in their database to find matches, which they'll report to you. An outside expert would not have full access to these companies' databases and might miss an important match whose results didn't appear in a public project.

      Maybe you already understood this, but it isn't clear to me from your post that you understood how the matching system works in genetic genealogy. Whichever company you test with will report to you any relevant matches. Then it's up to you to contact the matches and try to get as much information about their family as possible to give you clues to your birth father.
      Last edited by MMaddi; 13 May 2015, 08:33 PM.

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      • #4
        Suggestion from an adopted person

        I'm not sure what DNA tests you've taken, but I followed the advice from a number sources familiar with adopted person's quests and completed autosomal tests with all three of the large vendors. I've also done a y67 test and followed through on some SNP testing (the SNP mainly for my own amusement).

        I have no idea whether my results are typical or not. But you will get some matches, perhaps some with MRCAs within a few generations of you. Build up the trees of the seemingly unassociated people. Eventually, you will make some concrete connections. The DNA will help prove or at least support them.

        I rather think that hiring somebody to examine your results to magically conjure up birth relatives is wishful thinking at best. The DNA won't give you a name. It might help narrow down to a surname or two. But even those are dependent on no NPEs muddying the picture.

        It is hard work for sure. And there are folks who get scared of the adoption thing and don't want to respond. And others who go out of their way to help.

        I wish you luck. And I hope the state from which you were adopted allows access to original birth certificates (and that it has at least one name).
        Last edited by BBA64; 13 May 2015, 10:59 PM. Reason: boo boo

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        • #5
          Originally posted by owain View Post
          Rather than continue to upgrade to ever more baffling products through FTDNA , I would much rather pay an expert to analyze my DNA results, explain their processes and come up with a paternal family name that was relevant to me.
          If your biological patrilineage happens to come from the British Isles, a test like the Big Y may actually be able to do that. Otherwise, Y-DNA results can only narrow the field of possibilities; additional information from some source will still be required in order to arrive at a specific surname.

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          • #6
            thanks everyone

            thanks to everyone who has advised me , I appreciate your feedback. The main problem is that there is no record of a fathers name and the two anecdotal clues I have are either fiction or contradictory. The adoption agency says the father was 'an Irish civil engineer' - sounds like a navvy to me , but then they were trying to persuade a middle class couple. The second report came from the birth mothers side of the family where it was reported that I was 'mixed race' and that was the reason why she could not turn up in Ireland with me. I have ordered the Family finder kit and I am waiting for the results. However I am worried that the results will be as baffling as the YDNA results were to me which is what I meant by 'dry genetics'- I don't want to be told that I am RB347SXG and there is a 40% likelihood rising to 81.67%, per four generational interval, notwithstanding possible erroneous permutations, that R2D2 is my father! Essentially , what I want to do is delegate this to someone who is an expert in both genealogy and adoption and I would be amazed if no-one had actually thought that there might be a gap in the market on this one. That may sound lazy , but people do that kind of thing all the time and I don't see why has to be some kind of cottage industry/voyage of personal discovery , when I don't have the time , the contacts or the correct shaped brain to do this myself. What I have got is a very adept business brain and the opportunity for someone to do just what I have suggested is glaring.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by owain View Post
              thanks to everyone who has advised me , I appreciate your feedback. The main problem is that there is no record of a fathers name and the two anecdotal clues I have are either fiction or contradictory. The adoption agency says the father was 'an Irish civil engineer' - sounds like a navvy to me , but then they were trying to persuade a middle class couple. The second report came from the birth mothers side of the family where it was reported that I was 'mixed race' and that was the reason why she could not turn up in Ireland with me. I have ordered the Family finder kit and I am waiting for the results. However I am worried that the results will be as baffling as the YDNA results were to me which is what I meant by 'dry genetics'- I don't want to be told that I am RB347SXG and there is a 40% likelihood rising to 81.67%, per four generational interval, notwithstanding possible erroneous permutations, that R2D2 is my father! Essentially , what I want to do is delegate this to someone who is an expert in both genealogy and adoption and I would be amazed if no-one had actually thought that there might be a gap in the market on this one. That may sound lazy , but people do that kind of thing all the time and I don't see why has to be some kind of cottage industry/voyage of personal discovery , when I don't have the time , the contacts or the correct shaped brain to do this myself. What I have got is a very adept business brain and the opportunity for someone to do just what I have suggested is glaring.
              Actually there is a very good reason why you had noticed such gap in the market offerings.

              The research is long, expensive and with no guarantees. So it contradicts golden rules of the business: fast delivery, cheap and with a full guarantee. Science or knowledge barriers are in my opinion only secondary.

              W. (Mr.)

              P.S.
              Beware of crooks who would offer you fast research with guaranteed results!

              Comment


              • #8
                Have you tried the following with your Y-DNA results which I suggested in another thread to another adoptee. This worked for me to match a possible surname that I had for my biological father. The first three names all had the same surname. It all depends on how many people on your biological father's paternal line have taken a Y-DNA test. It can't hurt to try it:


                On FTDNA, start at your Dashboard:

                1) Select "Advanced Matches" from the Y-DNA section.
                2) Click the check box for "Select All Y-DNA"
                3) Click "Run Report"
                4) In the results click on "Y-DNA12" at the top of that column.
                5) An arrow should be pointing down for Y-DNA12. Now click on it again and the arrow should be pointing up.

                The results should now be sorted by zero GD matches for Y-DNA12, but also followed by exact or close matches for Y-DNA25 and Y-DNA37. For me when I do this, the first three names I see have my biological father's surname listed.

                Unfortunately a lot of men have only tested to Y-DNA12. Maybe as DNA testing becomes more mainstream and inexpensive, Y-DNA37 or even Y-DNA67 will be the minimum levels.

                Comment


                • #9
                  ah, W,(Mr.)... you have no guarantees of a good meal when you sit down to eat in a restaurant, only expectations. Whatever the advertising might suggest,you know, deep down, that beer will not make you bullet proof or irresistible to the opposite sex. The scale of adoption is quite scary if you look at the figures and what most adoptees understand better than anything else is that absolutely nothing is certain or as it first appears ; we learnt that lesson early. I do agree that the the potential to get taken is quite high though.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ec1970

                    Thanks ec1970. I followed your instructions. The first 2 names on the list were the same, but there was the same distance of 0 from all the other YDNA12 matches and there were about 20 sheets of 0 distance in total. Interestingly there were another 11 names which appeared again and again. One of those is a very common name which had 9 matches. The other name was very unusual and appeared 14 times and there was a slight variation which appeared 6 times. There is another name which appeared 5 times on my YDNA 37 matches , but at a distance of between 2 and 4. the same name appeared on your test a total of 8 times. I have e-mailed most of these and received no reply.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by owain View Post
                      Thanks ec1970. I followed your instructions. The first 2 names on the list were the same, but there was the same distance of 0 from all the other YDNA12 matches and there were about 20 sheets of 0 distance in total. Interestingly there were another 11 names which appeared again and again. One of those is a very common name which had 9 matches. The other name was very unusual and appeared 14 times and there was a slight variation which appeared 6 times. There is another name which appeared 5 times on my YDNA 37 matches , but at a distance of between 2 and 4. the same name appeared on your test a total of 8 times. I have e-mailed most of these and received no reply.
                      I feel your adoption search pain. My mother's adoption was closed, but with an accidental disclosure of one of the parent's surnames during the adoption and other "non-identifying information" released by the State I was able to piece together the full puzzle of her genealogy. I personally think it is ludicrous that in 2015 a person can be denied the Natural Right to their original birth certificate. But you would be amazed at how unhelpful biological siblings and other descendants become when you present them with this info. The only reason to contact them at all is they hold the power to grant you access to your original birth certificate.

                      I only learned recently that I didn't know my biological father. So I practically count as an adoptee. But I did have a name for my biological father. And the DNA evidence seems to back up that name. Some day I may reach out and offer to test the half brother who currently doesn't even know I exist.

                      Good luck with your research. If I were you, I would probably do some Internet research regarding the names that come up in that advanced search, at least in regard to the area where you were born. If you are old enough you could search the 1940 census, which is available for free online.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Tolliver/oliver

                        Tolliver appears 14 times and Oliver another six , I might be stretching it a bit but I have assumed that Oliver is an Anglicization of the first name- if there had only been a few I would have discounted them. They are also quite varied in YDNA range and distance. Any ideas , any Tollivers ?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by owain View Post
                          Tolliver appears 14 times and Oliver another six , I might be stretching it a bit but I have assumed that Oliver is an Anglicization of the first name- if there had only been a few I would have discounted them. They are also quite varied in YDNA range and distance. Any ideas , any Tollivers ?
                          You should join the Oliver Surname Project:

                          https://www.familytreedna.com/public/oliverDNA/

                          You might try this Tolliver Project:

                          http://www.tolliverfamily.com/

                          I'd also look at any projects pertaining to your Y haplogroup.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by owain View Post
                            Tolliver appears 14 times and Oliver another six , I might be stretching it a bit but I have assumed that Oliver is an Anglicization of the first name- if there had only been a few I would have discounted them. They are also quite varied in YDNA range and distance. Any ideas , any Tollivers ?

                            Try plugging "Tolliver" into the search box for the State that you think your birth family was from:

                            https://familysearch.org/1940census


                            Maybe see if there are still Tolliver's in the area? It is never a sure thing, but it could provide more clues.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I will have a look at the Tolliver project just out of curiosity , but I think that I might wait for my Family Finder results, so that I can get a bit more of a precise match, if one is available. The random e-mailing of strangers that share my DNA is starting to feel a bit 'stalkey'!

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