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National Flags for ancestors: use current or historical?

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  • #16
    Surely we do not see anything "unprofessional" about a Revolutionary War Icon attached to a patriot who fought and/or died for America's independence?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Biblioteque View Post
      Surely we do not see anything "unprofessional" about a Revolutionary War Icon attached to a patriot who fought and/or died for America's independence?
      I understand the idea from the first post in the thread.

      When having a large tree of hundreds, flags identifying the birth places can nicely visualize migration patterns. Especially, if the current ones are used. However, there is no easy way to incorporate information about shifting borders or to indicate births while travelling or to show nationality or personal feelings (being ... at heart), etc.


      Those into genealogical research incorporate all of the above information (and more) into notes/narratives attached to individuals. Sometimes life stories are very complex. Sometimes a life story itself is fairly simple, but surrounding events require very detailed and long explanations. For example, was he fighting on both sides? Was he forced to fight on one side, then deserted to another? Maybe he was fighting willingly on both sides, because in the interbellum period he had fallen in love with a girl from the other side and married her and she convinced him to switch sides... Then, how closely were the records examined (fake veterans are not an invention of the 21st century)? Sure, icons can be used, but any icon or a flag too often means that a decision had to be made, and it is not anymore a 100% sure indicator of something.

      That is why some people talk about unprofessionalism, and not because they dislike the added value of visual cues.


      Mr. W.

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      • #18
        Mr. W.asked:

        P.S.
        Bonus points for anyone who knows this simple flag


        A black flag is the flag that symbolizes anarchy.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_flags

        What is your intention in bringing this subtopic up?

        What motivates you to award "bonus points"?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by dna View Post
          I am responding because of your quote from another forum.
          Mr. W.
          When discussions are carried over from other forums they usually contain argumentation in an effort to seek and bring new participants into the previously existing argument. The problem that this creates is twofold. Those who are unaware of the previous discussion from elsewhere were not privy to it, and often are not interested in taking sides. Relocating an argument is not informative. It is merely provocative and it is often divisive.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Carpathian View Post
            Mr. W.asked:

            P.S.
            Bonus points for anyone who knows this simple flag


            A black flag is the flag that symbolizes anarchy.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_flags

            What is your intention in bringing this subtopic up?

            What motivates you to award "bonus points"?
            On my monitor, I can (faintly) see that it is not a black flag, but black-and-white flag. To help I have provided a link that shows the flag owner when hovering over it, and added underline so the white space gives the flag its usual proportions.

            That flag shows in historical paintings, possibly in the period movies, but it would look weird, unexpected or at least misleading in the context of a genealogical tree, wouldn't it?


            Mr. W.
            Last edited by dna; 26th July 2018, 09:58 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by dna View Post
              On my monitor, I can (faintly) see that it is not a black flag, but black-and-white flag. To help I have provided a link that shows the flag owner when hovering over it, and added underline so the white space gives the flag its usual proportions.

              That flag shows in historical paintings, possibly in the period movies, but it would look weird, unexpected or at least misleading in the context of a genealogical tree, wouldn't it?


              Mr. W.
              My monitor still shows it as a solid black rectangle.

              You said that you provided a link, but that does not appear either.

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              • #22
                It Is YOUR Choice

                KATM, which ever flag you use it your choice!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Jim Barrett View Post
                  KATM, which ever flag you use it your choice!
                  Thanks. And thanks for bringing it back on topic!

                  The End (I hope)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Consistency is the key - either go with the flags of the time your ancestors lived there or go with whatever is current, don't mix. Personally, I would probably go with current flags, since they are more familiar. If the purpose is to have a quick and easy visual reference, the more familiar the flags are, the more useful they will be.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Germanica View Post
                      Consistency is the key - either go with the flags of the time your ancestors lived there or go with whatever is current, don't mix. Personally, I would probably go with current flags, since they are more familiar. If the purpose is to have a quick and easy visual reference, the more familiar the flags are, the more useful they will be.
                      Flags are symbols of expression, traditionally one of a group or nationality. Even now, in many countries governmental regimes come and go and then borders become redrawn. The names of some countries change often, as their regimes do. In more stable countries this usually doesn't occur - or at least it happens much more slowly, if ever at all.

                      Ethnicity, language and culture have long been retained in local populations in most areas despite any flux in national or political regimes. But their retention of remaining physically present in a locale was guaranteed, due to family ties as well as lack of economic advancement. That resulted in little or no geographic movement among those who lived there. So they remained.

                      There are some peoples with little or no admix that are essentially nationless. They have retained their ethnicity, language and culture over many centuries, but have no distinct nationality.

                      Considering all that, why does anyone feel a compelling need to display any flag?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Carpathian View Post
                        Flags are symbols of expression, traditionally one of a group or nationality. Even now, in many countries governmental regimes come and go and then borders become redrawn. The names of some countries change often, as their regimes do. In more stable countries this usually doesn't occur - or at least it happens much more slowly, if ever at all.

                        Ethnicity, language and culture have long been retained in local populations in most areas despite any flux in national or political regimes. But their retention of remaining physically present in a locale was guaranteed, due to family ties as well as lack of economic advancement. That resulted in little or no geographic movement among those who lived there. So they remained.

                        There are some peoples with little or no admix that are essentially nationless. They have retained their ethnicity, language and culture over many centuries, but have no distinct nationality.

                        Considering all that, why does anyone feel a compelling need to display any flag?
                        For the reasons already mentioned by the OP.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Carpathian View Post
                          ... in many countries governmental regimes come and go and then borders become redrawn. The names of some countries change often, as their regimes do. In more stable countries this usually doesn't occur - or at least it happens much more slowly, if ever at all.
                          The majority of my ancestors come from regions that have switched from one country to another within the past 200 years, not to mention all the earlier changes. And that was all just in Europe.

                          Choosing the national flag at the time of an ancestor's birth would force me to put a handful of swastikas on my tree, which I refuse to do because it does not represent those ancestors' values.

                          Current flags could work on a chart with relatively few generations, to tell a story ("this branch came from France, that branch from Germany, etc."). But it's be of limited use.

                          Regional flags might be better, as people identified themselves more by their region than their nation. But that will require more research and won't be as universally understood.

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                          • #28
                            I sort of like the archaic flags. I find it educational trying to find their history.

                            Jack

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                            • #29
                              I'm Scandinavian, I like all the Scandinavian flags they use the sideways Christian cross. My Gr Grandparents came from Denmark I like the Danish flag.
                              🇩🇰

                              Josiah

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by EricDu View Post

                                Regional flags might be better, as people identified themselves more by their region than their nation. But that will require more research and won't be as universally understood.
                                That's my point - besides which regions usually didn't have flags of their own, but nations always do. Whether you have an ancestry that has little or no admixture, or even a lot, ultimately it makes no difference. Once you know or discover who you are and from whence your forebears came, you might not need to display it with a flag. One flag, many flags, or no flag at all. Flying or displaying any flag depends on what you want to express - or what you are being proud of.

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