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Blood of the Celts

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  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
    Personally I think L21 originated further east but France is a popular choice, my view is France was probably a major expansion point. No arguments about no. of downstream branches of L21 in Ireland, but the DNA has been very well studied in that area.

    I don't follow autosomal evidence closely but my impression is the ANE cline is firstly east to west followed by north to south. Certainly the low levels of ANE in places like Spain and Italy have never been reported as problematic for the theory of its spread from the Steppes.
    It does not make sense because the earliest beakers spreading from Iberia in the south to the north with so little ANE and lots of P312. The people of the Isles are high in ANE with some at 17%.

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  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    I think that France is the most likely place of origin for L21 but a lot of down stream branches look like they have an Irish origin.

    I still don't get the Yamnaya to Iberia through Italy origin for BB because of the lack of ANE and U152 in Iberia.
    Personally I think L21 originated further east but France is a popular choice, my view is France was probably a major expansion point. No arguments about no. of downstream branches of L21 in Ireland, but the DNA has been very well studied in that area.

    I don't follow autosomal evidence closely but my impression is the ANE cline is firstly east to west followed by north to south. Certainly the low levels of ANE in places like Spain and Italy have never been reported as problematic for the theory of its spread from the Steppes.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
    The estimates from YFull for L21 and DF27 are near as dammit the same. From Chromo2 (which is probably the most reliable data for the Isles at the mo) P312* is 8% in the areas he defines as Leinster & Ulster and 6% in Connacht & Munster.

    Nobody (almost: ) believes L21 could have originated in Ireland anymore.
    I think that France is the most likely place of origin for L21 but a lot of down stream branches look like they have an Irish origin.

    I still don't get the Yamnaya to Iberia through Italy origin for BB because of the lack of ANE and U152 in Iberia.

    Leave a comment:


  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    It is but isn't DF27 older than L21 and 20% of Irish R1b are P312* which could turn out to be DF27? Did L21 originate in Ireland? What about the autosomal dna?
    The estimates from YFull for L21 and DF27 are near as dammit the same. From Chromo2 (which is probably the most reliable data for the Isles at the mo) P312* is 8% in the areas he defines as Leinster & Ulster and 6% in Connacht & Munster.

    Nobody (almost: ) believes L21 could have originated in Ireland anymore.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by kevinduffy View Post
    L21 is much more common in Ireland than it is in Iberia.
    It is but isn't DF27 older than L21 and 20% of Irish R1b are P312* which could turn out to be DF27? Did L21 originate in Ireland? What about the autosomal dna?

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  • kevinduffy
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    Also Jean states that the Irish and Iberians do not cluster genetically.
    Iberians 94% P312, Irish 94% P312.

    L21 is much more common in Ireland than it is in Iberia.

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  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    Page 96

    Gaelic Irish VSO
    IE SOV
    Jean suggests that the VSO was from the language of the Neolithic farmers which translates as the Celts did not impose their language on the natives.

    Also Jean states that the Irish and Iberians do not cluster genetically.
    Iberians 94% P312, Irish 94% P312.
    Why is the structure of the Irish language verb, subject,object and the Indo European parent language subject,object,verb?

    There is evidence of Italy to Iberia migrations happened during the Neolithic and the Bronze-Ages, so why is there so little U152 in Iberia?

    Leave a comment:


  • J Honeychuck
    replied
    I can't delete my previous post.

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  • J Honeychuck
    replied
    There's already a thread
    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...-(2015)/page10

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Page 96

    Gaelic Irish VSO
    IE SOV
    Jean suggests that the VSO was from the language of the Neolithic farmers which translates as the Celts did not impose their language on the natives.

    Also Jean states that the Irish and Iberians do not cluster genetically.
    Iberians 94% P312, Irish 94% P312.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    started a topic Blood of the Celts

    Blood of the Celts

    An interesting book with a lot of ideas that are flawed.
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