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Blood of the Celts

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  • Blood of the Celts

    An interesting book with a lot of ideas that are flawed.

  • #2
    Page 96

    Gaelic Irish VSO
    IE SOV
    Jean suggests that the VSO was from the language of the Neolithic farmers which translates as the Celts did not impose their language on the natives.

    Also Jean states that the Irish and Iberians do not cluster genetically.
    Iberians 94% P312, Irish 94% P312.

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    • #3
      There's already a thread
      http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...-(2015)/page10

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      • #4
        I can't delete my previous post.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 1798 View Post
          Page 96

          Gaelic Irish VSO
          IE SOV
          Jean suggests that the VSO was from the language of the Neolithic farmers which translates as the Celts did not impose their language on the natives.

          Also Jean states that the Irish and Iberians do not cluster genetically.
          Iberians 94% P312, Irish 94% P312.
          Why is the structure of the Irish language verb, subject,object and the Indo European parent language subject,object,verb?

          There is evidence of Italy to Iberia migrations happened during the Neolithic and the Bronze-Ages, so why is there so little U152 in Iberia?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 1798 View Post
            Also Jean states that the Irish and Iberians do not cluster genetically.
            Iberians 94% P312, Irish 94% P312.

            L21 is much more common in Ireland than it is in Iberia.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by kevinduffy View Post
              L21 is much more common in Ireland than it is in Iberia.
              It is but isn't DF27 older than L21 and 20% of Irish R1b are P312* which could turn out to be DF27? Did L21 originate in Ireland? What about the autosomal dna?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                It is but isn't DF27 older than L21 and 20% of Irish R1b are P312* which could turn out to be DF27? Did L21 originate in Ireland? What about the autosomal dna?
                The estimates from YFull for L21 and DF27 are near as dammit the same. From Chromo2 (which is probably the most reliable data for the Isles at the mo) P312* is 8% in the areas he defines as Leinster & Ulster and 6% in Connacht & Munster.

                Nobody (almost: ) believes L21 could have originated in Ireland anymore.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
                  The estimates from YFull for L21 and DF27 are near as dammit the same. From Chromo2 (which is probably the most reliable data for the Isles at the mo) P312* is 8% in the areas he defines as Leinster & Ulster and 6% in Connacht & Munster.

                  Nobody (almost: ) believes L21 could have originated in Ireland anymore.
                  I think that France is the most likely place of origin for L21 but a lot of down stream branches look like they have an Irish origin.

                  I still don't get the Yamnaya to Iberia through Italy origin for BB because of the lack of ANE and U152 in Iberia.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                    I think that France is the most likely place of origin for L21 but a lot of down stream branches look like they have an Irish origin.

                    I still don't get the Yamnaya to Iberia through Italy origin for BB because of the lack of ANE and U152 in Iberia.
                    Personally I think L21 originated further east but France is a popular choice, my view is France was probably a major expansion point. No arguments about no. of downstream branches of L21 in Ireland, but the DNA has been very well studied in that area.

                    I don't follow autosomal evidence closely but my impression is the ANE cline is firstly east to west followed by north to south. Certainly the low levels of ANE in places like Spain and Italy have never been reported as problematic for the theory of its spread from the Steppes.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
                      Personally I think L21 originated further east but France is a popular choice, my view is France was probably a major expansion point. No arguments about no. of downstream branches of L21 in Ireland, but the DNA has been very well studied in that area.

                      I don't follow autosomal evidence closely but my impression is the ANE cline is firstly east to west followed by north to south. Certainly the low levels of ANE in places like Spain and Italy have never been reported as problematic for the theory of its spread from the Steppes.
                      It does not make sense because the earliest beakers spreading from Iberia in the south to the north with so little ANE and lots of P312. The people of the Isles are high in ANE with some at 17%.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                        It does not make sense because the earliest beakers spreading from Iberia in the south to the north with so little ANE and lots of P312. The people of the Isles are high in ANE with some at 17%.
                        Though that view is popular amongst archaeologists it's far from universal.

                        http://www.jna.uni-kiel.de/index.php...e/view/112/113

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                          It is but isn't DF27 older than L21 and 20% of Irish R1b are P312* which could turn out to be DF27? Did L21 originate in Ireland? What about the autosomal dna?
                          If 20% of Irish R1b are DF27 then why hasn't testing revealed it? Even if 20% of Irish R1bs were DF27 it would still mean that the remaining 80% were not. What about the autosomal DNA? Do you have any evidence that the Irish and Iberians are closely related in terms of their autosomal DNA?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                            I think that France is the most likely place of origin for L21 but a lot of down stream branches look like they have an Irish origin.
                            The reason why some of the downstreams look like they have an Irish origin is because they originated after L21 moved to Ireland.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by kevinduffy View Post
                              The reason why some of the downstreams look like they have an Irish origin is because they originated after L21 moved to Ireland.
                              My L21 cousins will like this book.

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