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  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    M269 did not originate in Iberia but P312 may have. The WAMH is found all along the Atlantic coast from Iberia to Ireland and it looks like place of origin. The vast majority of testers with this haplotype are P312.
    If it were that simple everybody would be insisting P312 originated in Ireland but most folk don't even think M222 was conceived there now.

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  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by kevinduffy View Post
    You mean it originated in the part of Europe where the Yamnaya used to live? What a surprise!
    M269 did not originate in Iberia but P312 may have. The WAMH is found all along the Atlantic coast from Iberia to Ireland and it looks like place of origin. The vast majority of testers with this haplotype are P312.

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  • kevinduffy
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    "The high frequencies for DF27 in Iberia are not surprising. The surprising number however is the amount of unresolved P312(xDF27, U152, L21, L238, DF19) in Ireland (17.81%) and Basque Country (12.61%). Unfortunately DF99 was not tested."
    The xDF27 means it was not DF27.

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  • kevinduffy
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    Valverde.et.al.2015

    "The dissection of S116 in more than 1500 individuals from Atlantic Europe and the Iberian Peninsula has provided important clues about the controversial evolutionary history of M269. First, the results do not point to an origin of M269 in the Franco–Cantabrian refuge, owing to the lack of sublineage diversity within M269, which supports the new theories proposing its origin in Eastern Europe.
    You mean it originated in the part of Europe where the Yamnaya used to live? What a surprise!

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  • 1798
    replied
    Valverde.et.al.2015

    "The dissection of S116 in more than 1500 individuals from Atlantic Europe and the Iberian Peninsula has provided important clues about the controversial evolutionary history of M269. First, the results do not point to an origin of M269 in the Franco–Cantabrian refuge, owing to the lack of sublineage diversity within M269, which supports the new theories proposing its origin in Eastern Europe. Second, S116 shows frequency peaks and spatial distribution that differ from those previously proposed, indicating an origin farther west, and it also shows a high frequency in the Atlantic coastline. Third, an outstanding frequency of the DF27 sublineage has been found in Iberia, with a restricted distribution pattern inside this peninsula and a frequency maximum in the area of the Franco–Cantabrian refuge. This entire panorama indicates an old arrival of M269 into Western Europe, because it has generated at least two episodes of expansion in the Franco–Cantabrian area. This study demonstrates the importance of continuing the dissection of the M269 lineage in different European populations because the discovery and study of new sublineages can adjust or even completely revise the theories about European peopling, as has been the case for the place of origin of M269."

    "The high frequencies for DF27 in Iberia are not surprising. The surprising number however is the amount of unresolved P312(xDF27, U152, L21, L238, DF19) in Ireland (17.81%) and Basque Country (12.61%). Unfortunately DF99 was not tested."

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  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by Armando View Post
    Where ever you read that it was incorrect.

    In Busby et al. 2011 out of 476 Irish 10.6% of them are P312*. Since 86.8% are R1b that means 12.2% of R1b are P312*. http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.o...4.article-info

    In the Ireland DNA project there are 2,686 people that have tested positive for U106 or a subclade of P312. Only 100 or 3.72% are DF27. https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults
    The Busby data is consistent with Jim Wilson's P312 map from Cromo2, of course not all of these will be DF27.

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  • Armando
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    I cannot find the link about the 20% P312* in Ireland but I know that I read it.
    Where ever you read that it was incorrect.

    In Busby et al. 2011 out of 476 Irish 10.6% of them are P312*. Since 86.8% are R1b that means 12.2% of R1b are P312*. http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.o...4.article-info

    In the Ireland DNA project there are 2,686 people that have tested positive for U106 or a subclade of P312. Only 100 or 3.72% are DF27. https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults

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  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    I cannot find the link about the 20% P312* in Ireland but I know that I read it.
    Yes but is this 20% of P312 or 20% overall ?

    It won't make much difference anyway (because of the levels of P312 in Ireland) but it would be nice to know before I attempt a response.

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  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
    Okey dokey, after the last experience could you this time explain exactly what you mean by 20% please rather than leaving people trying to guess ?
    I cannot find the link about the 20% P312* in Ireland but I know that I read it.

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  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    I don't have a problem understanding your posts or anyone else's. Your thoughts are in your words.
    Any chance of answering the question then ?

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  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
    Okey dokey, after the last experience could you this time explain exactly what you mean by 20% please rather than leaving people trying to guess ?
    I don't have a problem understanding your posts or anyone else's. Your thoughts are in your words.

    Leave a comment:


  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    Most of the 20% P312* could be DF27.
    Okey dokey, after the last experience could you this time explain exactly what you mean by 20% please rather than leaving people trying to guess ?

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  • kevinduffy
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    Most of the 20% P312* could be DF27.
    If it was DF27 then the tests should have revealed that.

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  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
    Perhaps you could make yourself clearer in the future, is this how you came up with 20% for DF27 in Ireland as well ?
    Most of the 20% P312* could be DF27.

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  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    If someone says that 6% of all R1b in Iberia are U106 then what are the other 94%? Most of the R1b in Iberia today belong to M269 and must belong to the brother subgroup P312.
    I did not say that R1b P312 is 94% of the male population in Iberia.
    Perhaps you could make yourself clearer in the future, is this how you came up with 20% for DF27 in Ireland as well ?

    Leave a comment:

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