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  • SwedeLover
    replied
    Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
    Germany needs lots of intelligent workers for its industrial value-added productions. It reminds me of the nazi regime bringing in lots of foreign workers.
    Are these people qualified?

    A lot of the "refugees" - and everyone knows the easiest way into a country is to claim "refugee" status [authorities did after all identify an ISIS member claiming refugee status but a few weeks ago trying to get into another country] as no one EVER does a background check on you - that are problems in France right now [attacking truckers, breaking into trucks, etc.] are not qualified to work. Most of them probably don't have any education or very limited if that.

    That is the reason why they are travelling like ants to a giant pot of honey to the bleeding cash-cow known as the UK; to take advantage of the gapping wound that is the welfare system there.



    Originally posted by DWFlineage View Post
    People of different backgrounds and beliefs undergo assimilation when, through living together, they come to see themselves as part of a larger community, or when a small group is absorbed into, and made part of, a bigger group, such as the Irish immigrants in America in the 19th century.
    I have no intentions of being rude, however I am saying in advance being former military I am quite direct and many people do not like the right-to-the-point / cut the "crap" attitude... so any rudeness is non-intentional.........

    However, what you're describing does NOT so really happen in reality.


    Most of these refugees - particularly very traditional Muslim / Arabic refugees - would rather cut off their right arm than "assimilate".

    There is, after all, a reason why the rape stats in Sweden and a number of Nordic countries have quite literally jumped through the roof with the influx of "refugees" arriving in their locations.

    In fact, for myself, a long time friend whom is Swedish has told me don't come - I usually visit him at least once a year during holidays or relatives from Denmark [he has actually come here to the North Americas this year] - because being blonde and "pixie" like in appearance I'd be targeted as MANY blonde Swedish women are [a number of them have taken to dying their hair black for their own safety].

    This is just one story. Now tell me again about your assimilation.
    http://vladtepesblog.com/2011/02/26/...old-in-sweden/


    such as the Irish immigrants in America in the 19th century

    Certainly you jest. If you are talking DNA-wise, that goes without say.

    Culturally - totally different story.

    The Irish haven't assimilated - oh they've tried, and they're still considered "scum" in a number of North American cities. I have a pronounced Irish accent which I picked up from my grandmother - a very tough Irish woman who will be 98 this upcoming year and the way she's going, will probably live quite a few more - and I don't use it at work [I taught myself years ago how to adopt a N. American accent because growing up in a hicks town my accent (it changes - sometimes I sound UK, sometimes European; comes with having a wide spread but tightly knit family in many countries and living in different countries) was always part of bullying] because the one time an Irishman came into the doctor's office where I work [had a lovely Irish accent much like Liam Neeson] my educated colleagues were making all sorts of comments about his accent when he left.

    Hence why you'll find little Irish "towns" inside major cities. Like you'll find little China towns, and little India, and little Russia, and little Polands, and little Italy... you want me to give you a list of so called assimilation in the US.


    I studied ethnics and cultural aspects - employment, stats, etc. - all through university. I have worked with a number of down trodden groups as part of my university and kept those connections afterwards - in the US and elsewhere. I have a number of published books AND articles on it.

    I could poke so many holes that by the time I am through the idea of assimilation [US and many other countries] would look like a piece of Swiss cheese that has been dragged through the bushes backwards a couple dozen times.

    Cultural assimilation - well, it is one of the best lies that man ever came up with.



    Originally posted by DWFlineage View Post
    This is so sad to see this mass migration by these families from Syria; literally running for their lives from the Assad regime & ISIL.
    How much do you know of the mid-east?

    If we followed that numbskull Obama - who has NEVER acknowledged ISIS, who has done NOTHING to curb that behavior, who roughly two years ago gave away the near exact location of US soldiers fighting in the mid-east on national news if not international news before military officials basically told him to shut up, who the mid-eastern leaders won't even acknowledge as obvious by their snubbing behavior whenever they meet [when he welcomed Saudi's ambassador was it last year] - then Syria would be more fked than it is now.

    It was the big-headed west sticking its nose literally where it did NOT belong by removing the so called "tyrants" that birthed ISIS. Because the west removed the tyrants - the linchpin of the rabbles' hatred [and the rabble make up 99.5% of ISIS's followers, as I bet none of them have ever read the Qurʾan if they even know how to sign their names as a vast majority of the ISIS's followers are ill-educated] - and created a vacuum which the west has so conveniently filled in their minds.

    The mindset that the "tyrants" enforced has existed in the mid-east long before the bull-in-a-china-shop US was even a thought in the back of Columbus's mind. The first acknowledgement of al Qaeda was in the early 1800s by the British after all.

    "Terrorism" didn't suddenly rise out of nothing.


    Problem is, is the west hasn't a rat's clue about the east. To the west it is all one big culture based on religion - such a mindset is so laughable it brings tears to the eyes.

    There's religion and then there's dozens upon dozens of cultural and familial sects in the mid-east. It is literally a maze.

    You want an example - Jihad John's "poor" family belongs to a cultural sect in the mid-east viewed as less than dogs, with the same contempt UKers give to gypsies. Unwanted "trash" if you would. But to the average person they were just poor refugee Muslims.

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  • M.B.
    replied
    Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
    I'll just point out again that ISIS is an equal opportunity murderer.
    ...
    It seems the world leaders are bombing the wrong side because the migration is caused by people fleeing Assad, not the IS, see here: https://diary.thesyriacampaign.org/w...ians-in-syria/

    Originally posted by DWFlineage View Post
    I mention Arwa Damon,...
    I don't need a CNN reporter, I am working in an asylum camp in Germany and I can talk to the refugees directly. They confirm that they are fleeing from Assad.

    And as the world leaders seems not to be willing to get rid of Assad, many of these people will indeed stay in Europe, so this is going to be a permanent migration having a significant impact on the the population of Europe. I guess over the time millions will come and stay here. Am I worried about that? Not at all. I am more concerned about the people inside Syria: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h0VDhENotI
    Last edited by M.B.; 26 September 2015, 03:03 AM.

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  • DWFlineage
    replied
    I understand

    Originally posted by M.B. View Post
    I insisted on the difference between assimilation and integration because here in Europe some leading politicians seemed to mix both up in a populistic approach.
    I understand.

    Leave a comment:


  • M.B.
    replied
    Originally posted by DWFlineage View Post
    I was not talking about these folks being forced into assimilation, certainly will be their choice to do so.
    I insisted on the difference between assimilation and integration because here in Europe some leading politicians seemed to mix both up in a populistic approach.

    Leave a comment:


  • prairielad
    replied
    Originally posted by DWFlineage View Post
    People of different backgrounds and beliefs undergo assimilation when, through living together, they come to see themselves as part of a larger community, or when a small group is absorbed into, and made part of, a bigger group, such as the Irish immigrants in America in the 19th century.
    I concur, for myself, as a Canadian, I have multiple ethnic backgrounds and ancestors of different beliefs.

    My paternal Grandfather born 1889 had a Scottish father and an Irish mother
    My paternal Grandmother born 1909 Romania, had a German/Romanian father and I am led to believe an Ukrainian mother
    My Maternal Grandfather born 1900, had a Norwegian born father and a Swedish born mother
    My Maternal Grandmother born 1909, had English parents (her mother born in England as well as her paternal Grandparents)

    Our spouses(my siblings/cousins), all are of multiple ethnic backgrounds also. One of my Aunts (born 1946) has a spouse who was born in Guyana.

    All in all, no matter the ethnic background or belief, it is inevitable that within a few generations that either region of settlements DNA will be introduced into immigrants population or that immigrants DNA will be introduce into region of settlements DNA pool after a few generations.

    Does this mean that each group will have the same DNA signature with in that region of settlement, no this will take multiple generations (100s of years)of intermarriages.
    There will also be the sub groups that stick with tradition and not marry outside their background/belief. Also keep in mind, belief system is not synonymous with Ethnicity.
    Last edited by prairielad; 10 September 2015, 11:47 AM.

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  • DWFlineage
    replied
    To clarify further

    Originally posted by DWFlineage View Post
    I was not talking about these folks being forced into assimilation, certainly will be their choice to do so. I was talking about a natural assimilation that does takes place over generations. It is inevitable; for example; that a Syrian child that is one of these refugees will grow up in their new home and fall in love with a German or Austrian and intermarry & procreate.

    Best regards, Doug
    People of different backgrounds and beliefs undergo assimilation when, through living together, they come to see themselves as part of a larger community, or when a small group is absorbed into, and made part of, a bigger group, such as the Irish immigrants in America in the 19th century.

    Leave a comment:


  • DWFlineage
    replied
    Assimilation

    Originally posted by M.B. View Post
    Assimilation should be a personal decision and none of the refugees should be forced into assimilation. Maybe you mean integration into the society by letting them participate.
    No one should be forced to assimilate if he does not want to. Imagine everybody assimilating, that would be "monoculture".
    Like I said, assimilation is only okay if it is done based on a free and personal decision.
    I was not talking about these folks being forced into assimilation, certainly will be their choice to do so. I was talking about a natural assimilation that does takes place over generations. It is inevitable; for example; that a Syrian child that is one of these refugees will grow up in their new home and fall in love with a German or Austrian and intermarry & procreate.

    Best regards, Doug

    Leave a comment:


  • MMaddi
    replied
    Originally posted by M.B. View Post
    Some will marry with a person from the majority society but most will marry within their own community, the melting pot theory was an utopia, see the American society for example where there are Chinatowns and other ethnically separated areas in big cities.
    Are you sure you know how modern American society actually functions?

    What you're describing about "melting pot" being a myth is true for ethnic groups in general for the first two or three generations. All four of my grandparents were born in Italy and came to this country unmarried. They married other immigrants from Italy within a few years of arriving in the U.S. All their children (except one), born in the U.S., married other children of Italian immigrants.

    So, the first two generations married within their ethnic community when in the U.S. Now, in my generation, the tendency is to marry without regard to ethnic background. My wife has no Italian ancestry; her ancestry is Irish/English/German. My sister's husband has Scottish ancestry. Only about half or so of my cousins' spouses have Italian ancestry. The other half of the spouses have no Italian ancestry.

    Yes, there are some communities which are particularly tight-knit and whose culture is very different from the typical American culture. Those communities will probably remain cohesive and there will be very little marriage outside their community. But I think you'll find that there is much more marriage outside their ethnic community among young Americans born in the last 25-30 years who are the children of immigrants. While there is still some suspicion or even prejudice against other ethnic groups or races by native born Americans, I don't think that young people today are nearly so prone to that sort of thing and are open to relationships and marriages with children of immigrants.

    This is my thinking, from my observations of American society (in which I actually live) today. I think your view is colored by media coverage in your country (wherever "Taka-Tuka-Land" is) of what America is like. Beware of myths, some created by the media, whether "melting pot" or the opposite.

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  • Lincoln
    replied
    Very little of this crisis is how the media is portraying it. I will leave it at that.

    Leave a comment:


  • M.B.
    replied
    Originally posted by prairielad View Post
    In respects to Genetics, it would be an assimilation of DNA into that region of settlements DNA over the next few generations
    Unless they do not intermarry, which I find highly unlikely as each generation passes as some inevitably will
    Some will marry with a person from the majority society but most will marry within their own community, the melting pot theory was an utopia, see the American society for example where there are Chinatowns and other ethnically separated areas in big cities.
    The same will happen to Europe, the refugees will hold on their culture, tradition and religion, they will continue to circumcise their sons, put off their shoes when entering their home, they will bring with them their art of cooking, their music, their folk tales and so on.

    I am looking forward to a more diverse Europe in which some annoying and troublesome discussions like the ban of circumcision, the headscarfs and so on will hopefully come to an end.
    Last edited by M.B.; 10 September 2015, 02:39 AM.

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  • prairielad
    replied
    Originally posted by M.B. View Post
    Assimilation should be a personal decision and none of the refugees should be forced into assimilation. Maybe you mean integration into the society by letting them participate.
    No one should be forced to assimilate if he does not want to. Imagine everybody assimilating, that would be "monoculture".
    Like I said, assimilation is only okay if it is done based on a free and personal decision.
    In respects to Genetics, it would be an assimilation of DNA into that region of settlements DNA over the next few generations
    Unless they do not intermarry, which I find highly unlikely as each generation passes as some inevitably will
    Last edited by prairielad; 10 September 2015, 01:01 AM.

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  • M.B.
    replied
    Originally posted by DWFlineage View Post
    So over the next several generations there will be assimilation into these regions where these folks settle.
    Assimilation should be a personal decision and none of the refugees should be forced into assimilation. Maybe you mean integration into the society by letting them participate.
    No one should be forced to assimilate if he does not want to. Imagine everybody assimilating, that would be "monoculture".
    Like I said, assimilation is only okay if it is done based on a free and personal decision.

    Leave a comment:


  • DWFlineage
    replied
    Arwa Damon

    I mention Arwa Damon, because she is a reporter for CNN and she has followed these refugees closely. Arwa's mother is Syrian and her father is American. Arwa speaks several of the languages such as Syrian, Farsi, etc., so she is able to communicate with these refugees very well. One important thing she has learned is that many of these refugees are middle class folks; lawyers, doctors, teachers, etc., and they left their good jobs, homes, everything, knowing they cannot return to their homeland and will start their new life in Germany, Austria or wherever they settle. So over the next several generations there will be assimilation into these regions where these folks settle. We have seen this happen here in the U.S.A.

    I hope that there will be better humanitarian support missions for these folks.

    Best regards, Doug

    Leave a comment:


  • MMaddi
    replied
    Now that some posters have diverted the thread from the original post with political "theorizing," isn't it time to get back to the original premise in the first post? The OP's thought about considering the Syria situation as a model of how and why our ancient ancestors moved away from their homelands is certainly worth discussing.

    I'm tempted to answer the overtly political agenda of M.B., but that would only prolong his hijacking of this thread. I suggest that he post all he wants about his political theories on some board meant for that type of discussion. Perhaps he's not aware that genetic genealogy forums aren't considered the proper place for posts about politics and religion.

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  • M.B.
    replied
    Originally posted by RobertaMarques View Post
    I don't think I would call Fear of Islam.
    Islamophobia has as much to do with fear as antisemitism has to do with fear.

    Fact is that the number of people killed by Assads war machinery is much higher than the number of people killed by the IS and other rebels.

    You know when the US bombing campain against ISIS began? It was during the "massacre" of the Yezidis.
    This reminds me so much on George Orwells book "1984" where people were told to hate Goldstein. And they did.

    It worked also some decades ago when we were told the lie about the Kuwaiti babies being thrown out of the incubators: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayira...or_allegations <-- These lie let to the bombing of Iraq.

    The lie about the Yezidis let to the bombing of the Islamic State: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0cacb8d33342b <-- Empty mass graves and only 67 dead Yezidis whereas we where told that thousands were killed.
    Last edited by M.B.; 9 September 2015, 05:42 PM.

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