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  • #16
    Originally posted by M.B. View Post
    The problem is the UN is being held hostage by the Security Council where Islamophobia is running high. There are four Christian countries (USA, France, England, Russia) and no Muslim country in the Security Council.
    I'll just point out again that ISIS is an equal opportunity murderer. It doesn't matter to them whether they kill Christians, Alawites/Shiites, Kurds or Yazidis, just as long as their victims don't believe in their perverted views.

    Those views are rejected by Islamic scholars in many nations. So this has nothing to do with Islamophobia, which does exist among some Western politicians.

    Why don't we stick to the main point of the original poster, about seeing the Syrian situation as a model for human migrations in the past? That's worth considering. What's not worth considering are half-truths about a very complicated and tragic situation.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by M.B. View Post
      Well, according to this article in the Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...0d4_story.html they are runnig rather from the Assad regime who is conducting a genocide on his own people by using weapons of mass destruction like barrel bombs.

      But for the consequences of the waves of refugees coming to Europe I am in no way pessimistic. It will for sure change Europe but not for the worse as I am an adherent of multiculturalism.
      Monoculture has never done good.
      People from Syria say it is not true. That the rebels against the current government of Syria are the ISIS and they are the ones terrorizing the population. After seeing so much misinformation about Brazil and seeing the reality, I will always go with the locals. (I am Brazilian).

      We can see that it makes sense since the majority of refugees from other countries are either Christians or the other type of Muslim, which is not the ISIS Islam.

      But as someone above said,this moving of people here and there paints a picture of what our ancestors lived.

      It seems like there is always a shuffle of people (I am sure I said it wrong) and then, new culture emerges, new languages emerges, new food dishes...sometimes the shuffle happens for natural reasons (drought, freeze etc) or man made reasons, in any case, it seems natural. Europe at one point was a place people ran from, now people are running to.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by M.B. View Post
        The problem is the UN is being held hostage by the Security Council where Islamophobia is running high. There are four Christian countries (USA, France, England, Russia) and no Muslim country in the Security Council.
        I don't think I would call Fear of Islam.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by RobertaMarques View Post
          I don't think I would call Fear of Islam.
          Islamophobia has as much to do with fear as antisemitism has to do with fear.

          Fact is that the number of people killed by Assads war machinery is much higher than the number of people killed by the IS and other rebels.

          You know when the US bombing campain against ISIS began? It was during the "massacre" of the Yezidis.
          This reminds me so much on George Orwells book "1984" where people were told to hate Goldstein. And they did.

          It worked also some decades ago when we were told the lie about the Kuwaiti babies being thrown out of the incubators: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayira...or_allegations <-- These lie let to the bombing of Iraq.

          The lie about the Yezidis let to the bombing of the Islamic State: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0cacb8d33342b <-- Empty mass graves and only 67 dead Yezidis whereas we where told that thousands were killed.
          Last edited by M.B.; 9 September 2015, 05:42 PM.

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          • #20
            Now that some posters have diverted the thread from the original post with political "theorizing," isn't it time to get back to the original premise in the first post? The OP's thought about considering the Syria situation as a model of how and why our ancient ancestors moved away from their homelands is certainly worth discussing.

            I'm tempted to answer the overtly political agenda of M.B., but that would only prolong his hijacking of this thread. I suggest that he post all he wants about his political theories on some board meant for that type of discussion. Perhaps he's not aware that genetic genealogy forums aren't considered the proper place for posts about politics and religion.

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            • #21
              Arwa Damon

              I mention Arwa Damon, because she is a reporter for CNN and she has followed these refugees closely. Arwa's mother is Syrian and her father is American. Arwa speaks several of the languages such as Syrian, Farsi, etc., so she is able to communicate with these refugees very well. One important thing she has learned is that many of these refugees are middle class folks; lawyers, doctors, teachers, etc., and they left their good jobs, homes, everything, knowing they cannot return to their homeland and will start their new life in Germany, Austria or wherever they settle. So over the next several generations there will be assimilation into these regions where these folks settle. We have seen this happen here in the U.S.A.

              I hope that there will be better humanitarian support missions for these folks.

              Best regards, Doug

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              • #22
                Originally posted by DWFlineage View Post
                So over the next several generations there will be assimilation into these regions where these folks settle.
                Assimilation should be a personal decision and none of the refugees should be forced into assimilation. Maybe you mean integration into the society by letting them participate.
                No one should be forced to assimilate if he does not want to. Imagine everybody assimilating, that would be "monoculture".
                Like I said, assimilation is only okay if it is done based on a free and personal decision.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by M.B. View Post
                  Assimilation should be a personal decision and none of the refugees should be forced into assimilation. Maybe you mean integration into the society by letting them participate.
                  No one should be forced to assimilate if he does not want to. Imagine everybody assimilating, that would be "monoculture".
                  Like I said, assimilation is only okay if it is done based on a free and personal decision.
                  In respects to Genetics, it would be an assimilation of DNA into that region of settlements DNA over the next few generations
                  Unless they do not intermarry, which I find highly unlikely as each generation passes as some inevitably will
                  Last edited by prairielad; 10 September 2015, 01:01 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by prairielad View Post
                    In respects to Genetics, it would be an assimilation of DNA into that region of settlements DNA over the next few generations
                    Unless they do not intermarry, which I find highly unlikely as each generation passes as some inevitably will
                    Some will marry with a person from the majority society but most will marry within their own community, the melting pot theory was an utopia, see the American society for example where there are Chinatowns and other ethnically separated areas in big cities.
                    The same will happen to Europe, the refugees will hold on their culture, tradition and religion, they will continue to circumcise their sons, put off their shoes when entering their home, they will bring with them their art of cooking, their music, their folk tales and so on.

                    I am looking forward to a more diverse Europe in which some annoying and troublesome discussions like the ban of circumcision, the headscarfs and so on will hopefully come to an end.
                    Last edited by M.B.; 10 September 2015, 02:39 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Very little of this crisis is how the media is portraying it. I will leave it at that.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by M.B. View Post
                        Some will marry with a person from the majority society but most will marry within their own community, the melting pot theory was an utopia, see the American society for example where there are Chinatowns and other ethnically separated areas in big cities.
                        Are you sure you know how modern American society actually functions?

                        What you're describing about "melting pot" being a myth is true for ethnic groups in general for the first two or three generations. All four of my grandparents were born in Italy and came to this country unmarried. They married other immigrants from Italy within a few years of arriving in the U.S. All their children (except one), born in the U.S., married other children of Italian immigrants.

                        So, the first two generations married within their ethnic community when in the U.S. Now, in my generation, the tendency is to marry without regard to ethnic background. My wife has no Italian ancestry; her ancestry is Irish/English/German. My sister's husband has Scottish ancestry. Only about half or so of my cousins' spouses have Italian ancestry. The other half of the spouses have no Italian ancestry.

                        Yes, there are some communities which are particularly tight-knit and whose culture is very different from the typical American culture. Those communities will probably remain cohesive and there will be very little marriage outside their community. But I think you'll find that there is much more marriage outside their ethnic community among young Americans born in the last 25-30 years who are the children of immigrants. While there is still some suspicion or even prejudice against other ethnic groups or races by native born Americans, I don't think that young people today are nearly so prone to that sort of thing and are open to relationships and marriages with children of immigrants.

                        This is my thinking, from my observations of American society (in which I actually live) today. I think your view is colored by media coverage in your country (wherever "Taka-Tuka-Land" is) of what America is like. Beware of myths, some created by the media, whether "melting pot" or the opposite.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Assimilation

                          Originally posted by M.B. View Post
                          Assimilation should be a personal decision and none of the refugees should be forced into assimilation. Maybe you mean integration into the society by letting them participate.
                          No one should be forced to assimilate if he does not want to. Imagine everybody assimilating, that would be "monoculture".
                          Like I said, assimilation is only okay if it is done based on a free and personal decision.
                          I was not talking about these folks being forced into assimilation, certainly will be their choice to do so. I was talking about a natural assimilation that does takes place over generations. It is inevitable; for example; that a Syrian child that is one of these refugees will grow up in their new home and fall in love with a German or Austrian and intermarry & procreate.

                          Best regards, Doug

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            To clarify further

                            Originally posted by DWFlineage View Post
                            I was not talking about these folks being forced into assimilation, certainly will be their choice to do so. I was talking about a natural assimilation that does takes place over generations. It is inevitable; for example; that a Syrian child that is one of these refugees will grow up in their new home and fall in love with a German or Austrian and intermarry & procreate.

                            Best regards, Doug
                            People of different backgrounds and beliefs undergo assimilation when, through living together, they come to see themselves as part of a larger community, or when a small group is absorbed into, and made part of, a bigger group, such as the Irish immigrants in America in the 19th century.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DWFlineage View Post
                              People of different backgrounds and beliefs undergo assimilation when, through living together, they come to see themselves as part of a larger community, or when a small group is absorbed into, and made part of, a bigger group, such as the Irish immigrants in America in the 19th century.
                              I concur, for myself, as a Canadian, I have multiple ethnic backgrounds and ancestors of different beliefs.

                              My paternal Grandfather born 1889 had a Scottish father and an Irish mother
                              My paternal Grandmother born 1909 Romania, had a German/Romanian father and I am led to believe an Ukrainian mother
                              My Maternal Grandfather born 1900, had a Norwegian born father and a Swedish born mother
                              My Maternal Grandmother born 1909, had English parents (her mother born in England as well as her paternal Grandparents)

                              Our spouses(my siblings/cousins), all are of multiple ethnic backgrounds also. One of my Aunts (born 1946) has a spouse who was born in Guyana.

                              All in all, no matter the ethnic background or belief, it is inevitable that within a few generations that either region of settlements DNA will be introduced into immigrants population or that immigrants DNA will be introduce into region of settlements DNA pool after a few generations.

                              Does this mean that each group will have the same DNA signature with in that region of settlement, no this will take multiple generations (100s of years)of intermarriages.
                              There will also be the sub groups that stick with tradition and not marry outside their background/belief. Also keep in mind, belief system is not synonymous with Ethnicity.
                              Last edited by prairielad; 10 September 2015, 11:47 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by DWFlineage View Post
                                I was not talking about these folks being forced into assimilation, certainly will be their choice to do so.
                                I insisted on the difference between assimilation and integration because here in Europe some leading politicians seemed to mix both up in a populistic approach.

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