Atlantic dna

[N21163]

@N21163
The Megalithic tombs in Ireland were built by the ancestors of the people living in Ireland today. That is the correct answer.

I have addressed this with you previously.

It is quite possible that people within today's Irish population are descendants of the tomb builders. That does not mean ALL Irish people are descendants of the tomb builders.

Furthermore, this doesn't prove that the tomb builders belonged to U106 haplogroup or any subclade...if you make such a statement you are only speculating and I don't see any convincing evidence that would support such a statement.

Some of the L21 people claim that it was their ancestors who brought the Celtic language to Ireland.

If I encountered such people I would give them the same challenge as I give you. Provide research/evidence to support such claims.

[1798]

I have addressed this with you previously.

It is quite possible that people within today's Irish population are descendants of the tomb builders. That does not mean ALL Irish people are descendants of the tomb builders.

Furthermore, this doesn't prove that the tomb builders belonged to U106 haplogroup or any subclade...if you make such a statement you are only speculating and I don't see any convincing evidence that would support such a statement.

The majority of Irish people are descended from the tomb builders. The tomb building came to an end around 4,000 ybp.

If I encountered such people I would give them the same challenge as I give you. Provide research/evidence to support such claims.

The majority of Irish people are descended from the tomb builders.

"The tomb building stopped around 4,000 years ago".
Temples of Stone by Carleton Jones

There were Celtic settlements found in Russia, Ukraine and Poland. These regions are not L21 strongholds.

[kevinduffy]

The majority of Irish people are descended from the tomb builders.

"The tomb building stopped around 4,000 years ago".
Temples of Stone by Carleton Jones

There were Celtic settlements found in Russia, Ukraine and Poland. These regions are not L21 strongholds.

Were any of them P312?

[1798]

Were any of them P312?

R1a is one of the major haplogroups in the areas mentioned.

The onus is on each individual tested to prove the origins of his own Y line.

[kevinduffy]

R1a is one of the major haplogroups in the areas mentioned.

The onus is on each individual tested to prove the origins of his own Y line.

Thanks for not answering my question. I don't have to prove the origins of my Y-line because I wasn't the one claiming that Celtic settlements were found in places like Russia. I made the mistake of thinking that you knew what you were talking about when you obviously don't.

[1798]

Thanks for not answering my question. I don't have to prove the origins of my Y-line because I wasn't the one claiming that Celtic settlements were found in places like Russia. I made the mistake of thinking that you knew what you were talking about when you obviously don't.

How would anyone know which haplogroups they were in? You could read a few books on the Celts to get a good handle on the regions that were Celtic. That is what I do.

[kevinduffy]

How would anyone know which haplogroups they were in? You could read a few books on the Celts to get a good handle on the regions that were Celtic. That is what I do.

You were the one who brought up the issue of Celtic settlements in Russia. I made the mistake of thinking that you were doing this because DNA samples had been taken from those areas. Did these books that you supposedly read also tell you that U106 was in Ireland thousands of years ago?

[1798]

https://balkancelts.wordpress.com/tag/celts-russia/
"Besides Slovenia and Croatia, Novo Mesto type helmets have also been found at sites stretching from Poland to the Caspian Sea. A tripartite iron helmet was found in cremation grave # 25 in Siemiechów (central Poland), used as an urn for the cremated bones of the deceased. Originally identified as ‘Roman’, subsequent research has shown that the Siemiechów helmet is a variant of the tripartite east-Celtic helmet (Schaaff 1986:833). Another variant of the Novo Mesto type of Celtic helmet was found in tumulus # 2 at Cugir Romania, together with a late La Têne sword in its scabbard, and a shield umbo (Mihaljević, Dizdar op cit.), while in Bulgaria a rounded cheek guard discovered at the Celtic hillfort at Arkovna, Varna region (Lazarov 2010) probably also comes from such a helmet. On the banks of the river Seim in the middle Dneiper Basin in western Ukraine further examples have recently been discovered at the Mutyn burial complex. At the Mutyn site, which dates to the late 1st c. BC, Celtic burials containing 13 late La Têne swords, scabbards, spearheads, shield bosses and chainmail have been excavated. 5 late La Têne helmets were also discovered, of which at least 2 are of the Novo Mesto type (Kazakevich 2012).

The easternmost finds of these Celtic helmets come from southern Russia, and include an example from Boiko-Ponura (Krasnodar), and another from Yashkul (Kalmykia) which most resembles the Novo Mesto type helmets from Slovenia and Croatia (Kazakevich 2010, Mihaljević, Dizdar op cit.). Both eastern Celtic helmets from Southern Russia should logically be associated with the Celto-Scythian Bastarnae tribes."

Literature Cited
"Kazakevich G. (2012) Celtic Military Equipment from the Territory of Ukraine: Towards a new Warrior Identity in the pre-Roman Eastern Europe. In: Transforming Traditions: Studies in Archaeology, Comparative Linguistics and Narrative. Studia Celto-Slavica 6. p. 177- 212. Lódź"

[MMaddi]

Thanks for not answering my question. I don't have to prove the origins of my Y-line because I wasn't the one claiming that Celtic settlements were found in places like Russia. I made the mistake of thinking that you knew what you were talking about when you obviously don't.

With all due respect to 1798, what I've bolded in your post above succintly summarizes what it's like dealing with him on any subject remotely related to R1b in Europe and, especially, Irish R1b.

It makes me believe that 1798 has a degree from the Mad Hatter School of Population Genetics. The motto of that school is "When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less." This is actually a quote in "Alice in Wonderland" from Humpty Dumpty, not the Mad Hatter. Humpty Dumpty is the chair of the Linguistics Department at the Mad Hatter School of Population Genetics.

[MMaddi]

How would anyone know which haplogroups they were in? You could read a few books on the Celts to get a good handle on the regions that were Celtic. That is what I do.

You imply, rightly so, that no one could know in which haplogroup these Celts who lived in what's now Russia were. Yet, you insist with what seems absolute certainty (but citing no scientific evidence) that U106 was in Ireland thousands of years ago.

Please explain how you can do this with a straight face.

[kevinduffy]

https://balkancelts.wordpress.com/tag/celts-russia/
"Besides Slovenia and Croatia, Novo Mesto type helmets have also been found at sites stretching from Poland to the Caspian Sea. A tripartite iron helmet was found in cremation grave # 25 in Siemiechów (central Poland), used as an urn for the cremated bones of the deceased. Originally identified as ‘Roman’, subsequent research has shown that the Siemiechów helmet is a variant of the tripartite east-Celtic helmet (Schaaff 1986:833). Another variant of the Novo Mesto type of Celtic helmet was found in tumulus # 2 at Cugir Romania, together with a late La Têne sword in its scabbard, and a shield umbo (Mihaljević, Dizdar op cit.), while in Bulgaria a rounded cheek guard discovered at the Celtic hillfort at Arkovna, Varna region (Lazarov 2010) probably also comes from such a helmet. On the banks of the river Seim in the middle Dneiper Basin in western Ukraine further examples have recently been discovered at the Mutyn burial complex. At the Mutyn site, which dates to the late 1st c. BC, Celtic burials containing 13 late La Têne swords, scabbards, spearheads, shield bosses and chainmail have been excavated. 5 late La Têne helmets were also discovered, of which at least 2 are of the Novo Mesto type (Kazakevich 2012).

The easternmost finds of these Celtic helmets come from southern Russia, and include an example from Boiko-Ponura (Krasnodar), and another from Yashkul (Kalmykia) which most resembles the Novo Mesto type helmets from Slovenia and Croatia (Kazakevich 2010, Mihaljević, Dizdar op cit.). Both eastern Celtic helmets from Southern Russia should logically be associated with the Celto-Scythian Bastarnae tribes."

Literature Cited
"Kazakevich G. (2012) Celtic Military Equipment from the Territory of Ukraine: Towards a new Warrior Identity in the pre-Roman Eastern Europe. In: Transforming Traditions: Studies in Archaeology, Comparative Linguistics and Narrative. Studia Celto-Slavica 6. p. 177- 212. Lódź"

But none of this has anything to do with DNA. Unless DNA samples were recovered from these sites, they are not relevant to a discussion on ancient DNA.

[kevinduffy]

With all due respect to 1798, what I've bolded in your post above succintly summarizes what it's like dealing with him on any subject remotely related to R1b in Europe and, especially, Irish R1b.

It makes me believe that 1798 has a degree from the Mad Hatter School of Population Genetics. The motto of that school is "When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less." This is actually a quote in "Alice in Wonderland" from Humpty Dumpty, not the Mad Hatter. Humpty Dumpty is the chair of the Linguistics Department at the Mad Hatter School of Population Genetics.

Unfortunately, I think you are right.

[1798]

You imply, rightly so, that no one could know in which haplogroup these Celts who lived in what's now Russia were. Yet, you insist with what seems absolute certainty (but citing no scientific evidence) that U106 was in Ireland thousands of years ago.

Please explain how you can do this with a straight face.

Seeing that you know exactly when the first U106 arrived in Ireland, let us all hear it. U106 was in southern Germany 4,600 years ago according to the U106 dna project background page.

"The group rose to significance in southern Germany and the surrounding areas about 2600 BC."

[kevinduffy]

Seeing that you know exactly when the first U106 arrived in Ireland, let us all hear it. U106 was in southern Germany 4,600 years ago according to the U106 dna project background page.

"The group rose to significance in southern Germany and the surrounding areas about 2600 BC."

No one is claiming to know exactly when U106 first arrived in Ireland but the most likely time period is sometime within the last thousand years or so and was probably brought by the Vikings, Normans and/or British.

[MMaddi]

Seeing that you know exactly when the first U106 arrived in Ireland, let us all hear it. U106 was in southern Germany 4,600 years ago according to the U106 dna project background page.

"The group rose to significance in southern Germany and the surrounding areas about 2600 BC."

Well, golly gee! That's actually based on Dr. Iain McDonald's analysis of the ages of U106 subclades and the geographic distribution of the subclades today, along with the knowledge that's been obtained about the population history of R1b in Europe by two recent scientific studies. Of course, you reject those studies and any conclusions drawn from them, although when it's convenient for your arguments you do cite Iain's work, which is based on data from over 450 Big Y results of project members.

Evidently, you and the Mad Hatter School of Population Genetics have some unpublished "evidence" that would refute these misguided studies. For some reason you and the leading academics of the Mad Hatter School of Population Genetics don't feel compelled to publicly release that "evidence." Perhaps you prefer to rely on your stating that your intuition should be enough "evidence" to accept your views.

Nice try, though.