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  • Cro-Magnon

    WHG is the dna of the Cro-Magnon and I have 64.81%.
    My result.

    ANE 17.07%
    ASE 2.65%
    WHG-UHG 64.81%
    East_Eurasian - * *
    West_African - * *
    East_African 0.80%
    ENF 14.68%

    "Kents Cavern
    Main article: Kents Cavern
    A prehistoric maxilla (upper jawbone) fragment was uncovered in the cavern during a 1927 excavation by the Torquay Natural History Society, and named Kents Cavern 4. In 2011 the fossil was tested and redated to at least 41,500 years old and confirmed to be Cro-Magnon, making it the earliest anatomically modern human (AMH) fossil yet discovered in North-West Europe."

  • #2
    "Mitochondrial DNA closely tracks the movement of people from the western ice age refuges to Britain and Ireland. A very recent sample of 5,000 people from all parts of Britain and Ireland, both men and women (since we all carry mtDNA), shows something remarkable. Just under 56% of all those tested in 2012 are descended from those bands of hunter-gatherers who walked north across what is now France, or sailed up the Atlantic coastline and began to settle in Britain and Ireland after the ice melted. Those who carry the DNA marker H and its subgroups are by far the largest cohort at 44%, and markers U and HV0 make up the remainder. The distribution is nationwide, from Orkney to Cornwall, and from East Anglia to the West Coast of Ireland. All of these markers appear to have arisen in the ice age refuges and then fanned out over Europe, Britain and Ireland after c9,000BC. For example, the highest modern frequency of H (including its main subgroup H1) is in the Basque Country, at the western end of the Pyrenean ranges, a connection that makes a powerful ancestral link with the cave painters of Chauvet, Lascaux, Altamira and elsewhere."

    Irelandsdna

    Comment


    • #3
      The Cro-Magnons Have No Descendants in Europe Today.
      Razib Khan.
      If that is right, how is it that that some modern Humans have 3% Neandertal dna? The Neandertals died out 40,000 ybp. I think that we in western Europe are the descendants of the Cro Magnon. A few dna tests from the Cro Magnon remains will confirm it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 1798 View Post
        A few dna tests from the Cro Magnon remains will confirm it.
        Or not as the case may be ...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 1798 View Post
          WHG is the dna of the Cro-Magnon and I have 64.81%.
          My result.

          ANE 17.07%
          ASE 2.65%
          WHG-UHG 64.81%
          East_Eurasian - * *
          West_African - * *
          East_African 0.80%
          ENF 14.68%

          "Kents Cavern
          Main article: Kents Cavern
          A prehistoric maxilla (upper jawbone) fragment was uncovered in the cavern during a 1927 excavation by the Torquay Natural History Society, and named Kents Cavern 4. In 2011 the fossil was tested and redated to at least 41,500 years old and confirmed to be Cro-Magnon, making it the earliest anatomically modern human (AMH) fossil yet discovered in North-West Europe."
          WHG is Cro-Magnon DNA? Where is that written?

          The WHG component in the Eurogenes ANE K7 admixture calculator on Gedmatch is explained in the Eurogenes Blog:
          http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/201...est-three.html

          "West European Hunter-Gatherer (WHG): this ancestral component is based on an 8,000 year-old forager from the Loschbour rock shelter in Luxembourg (one of the individuals mentioned above belonging to I2a1b). The WHG meta-population includes the Loschbour sample and two Mesolithic individuals from the La Brana Cave in Spain. However, today the WHG component peaks among Estonians and Lithuanians, in the East Baltic region, at almost 50%."

          Originally posted by 1798 View Post
          The Cro-Magnons Have No Descendants in Europe Today.
          Razib Khan.
          If that is right, how is it that that some modern Humans have 3% Neandertal dna? The Neandertals died out 40,000 ybp. I think that we in western Europe are the descendants of the Cro Magnon. A few dna tests from the Cro Magnon remains will confirm it.
          Hang on didn't you just state that the WHG component on the ANE K7 calculator = Cro-Magnon DNA...

          So in other words you have no idea.

          Well done.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by N21163 View Post
            WHG is Cro-Magnon DNA? Where is that written?

            The WHG component in the Eurogenes ANE K7 admixture calculator on Gedmatch is explained in the Eurogenes Blog:
            http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/201...est-three.html

            "West European Hunter-Gatherer (WHG): this ancestral component is based on an 8,000 year-old forager from the Loschbour rock shelter in Luxembourg (one of the individuals mentioned above belonging to I2a1b). The WHG meta-population includes the Loschbour sample and two Mesolithic individuals from the La Brana Cave in Spain. However, today the WHG component peaks among Estonians and Lithuanians, in the East Baltic region, at almost 50%."



            Hang on didn't you just state that the WHG component on the ANE K7 calculator = Cro-Magnon DNA...

            So in other words you have no idea.

            Well done.
            Where did the Lochsbour HG come from? Mars.

            I have dna from the Neandertal era 40,000 ybp and I also have dna from the first man who ever lived, get it.

            "West European Hunter-Gatherer (WHG): this ancestral component is based on an 8,000 year-old forager from the Loschbour rock shelter in Luxembourg (one of the individuals mentioned above belonging to I2a1b). The WHG meta-population includes the Loschbour sample and two Mesolithic individuals from the La Brana Cave in Spain. However, today the WHG component peaks among Estonians and Lithuanians, in the East Baltic region, at almost 50%."

            That is proof that there was a WHG migration into these areas because they were not inhabited during the Ice-Age.
            Last edited by 1798; 27 June 2015, 11:10 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 1798 View Post
              Where did the Lochsbour HG come from? Mars.

              I have dna from the Neandertal era 40,000 ybp and I also have dna from the first man who ever lived, get it.

              "West European Hunter-Gatherer (WHG): this ancestral component is based on an 8,000 year-old forager from the Loschbour rock shelter in Luxembourg (one of the individuals mentioned above belonging to I2a1b). The WHG meta-population includes the Loschbour sample and two Mesolithic individuals from the La Brana Cave in Spain. However, today the WHG component peaks among Estonians and Lithuanians, in the East Baltic region, at almost 50%."

              That is proof that there was a WHG migration into these areas because they were not inhabited during the Ice-Age.
              Yawn.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by N21163 View Post
                Yawn.
                You want your ancestor to originate in Russia, so that you can claim to be pure IE.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dodecad V3
                  KOI HG Hungary 5,600BC (F999931) YDNA I-L68
                  # Population Percent
                  1 West_European 67.44
                  2 East_European 31.68

                  Using 4 populations approximation:
                  1 Finnish + Finnish + Swedish + Swedish @ 14.117715
                  Eurogenes Hunter_Gatherer vs. Farmer Admixture Proportions
                  Population *
                  Anatolian Farmer - * *
                  Baltic Hunter Gatherer 96.43%
                  Middle Eastern Herder - * *
                  East Asian Farmer - * *
                  South American Hunter Gatherer - * *
                  South Asian Hunter Gatherer - * *
                  North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer - * *
                  East African Pastoralist - * *
                  Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.12%
                  Mediterranean Farmer 3.46%
                  Pygmy Hunter Gatherer - * *
                  Bantu Farmer - * *

                  Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle
                  # Population Percent
                  1 Baltic 56.72
                  2 North_Atlantic 43.23

                  Using 4 populations approximation:
                  1 Estonian + Estonian + Estonian + La_Brana-1 @ 13.996668
                  Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 4-Ancestors Oracle
                  # Population Percent
                  1 Baltic 37.28
                  2 North_Sea 37.02
                  3 Atlantic 20.96
                  4 Eastern_Euro 4.74

                  Using 4 populations approximation:
                  1 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Swedish + Swedish @ 18.262562

                  Eurogenes_ANE K7 Admixture Proportion
                  Population * *
                  ANE 6.55%
                  ASE - * *
                  WHG-UHG 93.07%
                  East_Eurasian 0.15%
                  West_African - * *
                  East_African 0.22%
                  ENF - * *

                  This HG was a long way from home in Hungary.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                    You want your ancestor to originate in Russia, so that you can claim to be pure IE.
                    Russia? Pure IE?

                    You have some strange ideas.

                    You have no basis to make such a statement.

                    Please provide a link to postings where I have made such statements.

                    You are the one who wants to be linked to ancient Europeans and after years of being on forums you cannot seem to deal with the possibility that you may not be.

                    It seems that you can only conceive that all of your ancestry is Irish and you are determined to try and twist any piece of information to suit your agenda. You may have English or Scandinavian ancestry in the mix as well. If you do so what? If you don't so what?

                    I have no preference about where my ancestors came from. I am curious about my ancestry and what DNA testing can tell me. I'm not out to prove anything.

                    If you have a problem with the age or origin of the subclades in your haplogroup that's your problem.

                    If it turned out there was a Mongolian connection, it would add an interesting story or two to my ancestry but that's about it.

                    Unlike, I have no agenda or assumptions on these forums.
                    Last edited by N21163; 28 June 2015, 05:35 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by N21163 View Post
                      Russia? Pure IE?

                      You have some strange ideas.

                      You have no basis to make such a statement.

                      Please provide a link to postings where I have made such statements.

                      You are the one who wants to be linked to ancient Europeans and after years of being on forums you cannot seem to deal with the possibility that you may not be.

                      It seems that you can only conceive that all of your ancestry is Irish and you are determined to try and twist any piece of information to suit your agenda. You may have English or Scandinavian ancestry in the mix as well. If you do so what? If you don't so what?

                      I have no preference about where my ancestors came from. I am curious about my ancestry and what DNA testing can tell me. I'm not out to prove anything.

                      If you have a problem with the age or origin of the subclades in your haplogroup that's your problem.

                      If it turned out there was a Mongolian connection, it would add an interesting story or two to my ancestry but that's about it.

                      Unlike, I have no agenda or assumptions on these forums.
                      The age of subclades or origin has nothing to do with autosomal dna or has it? France was not affected by the Ice Age so why would the Cro Magnon in France be replaced? The Irish people are close to the French in autosomal,YDNA and MTDNA.The archaeological records show this as well.

                      Some posters are tying language to single subgroups to accommodate their personal ancestry and that has nothing to do with science.

                      Just for the record our common ancestor P311 originated in western Europe and I don't know which language he spoke and far less I care, so JMHO.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                        The age of subclades or origin has nothing to do with autosomal dna or has it? France was not affected by the Ice Age so why would the Cro Magnon in France be replaced? The Irish people are close to the French in autosomal,YDNA and MTDNA.The archaeological records show this as well.

                        Some posters are tying language to single subgroups to accommodate their personal ancestry and that has nothing to do with science.

                        Just for the record our common ancestor P311 originated in western Europe and I don't know which language he spoke and far less I care, so JMHO.
                        In other words you have no basis to make any statements about me so you will deflect to more questions.

                        I mentioned nothing of a connection between subclade age or origin and autosomal DNA.

                        This is yet another example where a discussion will ensure for a number of posts and you will end up stating either "we need more ancient DNA results", "we need ancient DNA from the Isles" or post some more results from an admixture calculator and attempt to make some loose connection.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hello,

                          This seems to be an argument that plays out in many threads. If we can keep it all in one comprehensive thread I would much appreciate it.

                          -Darren
                          Family Tree DNA

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by N21163 View Post
                            Russia? Pure IE?

                            You have some strange ideas.

                            You have no basis to make such a statement.

                            Please provide a link to postings where I have made such statements.

                            You are the one who wants to be linked to ancient Europeans and after years of being on forums you cannot seem to deal with the possibility that you may not be.

                            It seems that you can only conceive that all of your ancestry is Irish and you are determined to try and twist any piece of information to suit your agenda. You may have English or Scandinavian ancestry in the mix as well. If you do so what? If you don't so what?

                            I have no preference about where my ancestors came from. I am curious about my ancestry and what DNA testing can tell me. I'm not out to prove anything.

                            If you have a problem with the age or origin of the subclades in your haplogroup that's your problem.

                            If it turned out there was a Mongolian connection, it would add an interesting story or two to my ancestry but that's about it.

                            Unlike, I have no agenda or assumptions on these forums.
                            What has that to do with Cro Magnon autosomal dna. I don't have a problem but there are a lot of people out there that does have one with continuity.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                              What has that to do with Cro Magnon autosomal dna. I don't have a problem but there are a lot of people out there that does have one with continuity.
                              Nothing, you were the one who deviated from topic and posted ridiculous statements aimed at me.

                              You've previously tried to the 'North Sea' component out of a gedmatch DNA calculator and use it to support some kind of argument...this seems no different.

                              Go back and read the very first post I had here: http://forums.familytreedna.com/show...14&postcount=6

                              I asked you to provide evidence of where literature stated that the WHG component of the admixture calculators represents Cro-Magnon DNA. You didn't because you can't single out Cro-Magnon as a separate culture or subspecies.

                              The WHG component is an artificial construct it is based on.....based on....the Loschbour sample two Mesolithic individuals from the La Brana Cave in Spain.

                              You're essentially trying to attribute this component to a collective term for European early modern humans. Do you have any research or data, other than an admixture calculator to say that the WHG component represents which is not as simple as plucking the WHG component out of an admixture calculator.

                              "The Cro-Magnons are identified with Homo sapiens sapiens of modern form, in the time range ca. 35,000-10,000 b.p. […] The term "Cro-Magnon" has no formal taxonomic status, since it refers neither to a species or subspecies nor to an archaeological phase or culture. The name is not commonly encountered in modern professional literature in English, since authors prefer to talk more generally of anatomically modern humans (AMH). They thus avoid a certain ambiguity in the label "Cro-Magnon", which is sometimes used to refer to all early moderns in Europe (as opposed to the preceding Neanderthals), and sometimes to refer to a specific human group that can be distinguished from other Upper Paleolithic humans in the region. Nevertheless, the term "Cro-Magnon" is still very commonly used in popular texts because it makes an obvious distinction with the Neanderthals, and also refers directly to people rather than to the complicated succession of archaeological phases that make up the Upper Paleolithic. This evident practical value has prevented archaeologists and human paleontologists from dispensing entirely with the idea of Cro-Magnons."

                              Fagan, B.M. (1996). The Oxford Companion to Archaeology. Oxford, UK: Oxford University Press. p. 864.

                              Take a breath and instead of flying off the handles because someone identifies some holes in your argument, try to do some actual research rather than relying on admixture calculator results to support your statements.

                              Comment

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