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  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    I don't see why some WHG could not be linked to the Cro-Magnon.
    Well this sort of paper should provide a lot of answers, 500 aDNA samples is going to keep us busy for a while : )

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
    still having trouble with links I see : )

    http://horizon-magazine.eu/article/i...nction_en.html

    So after reading this do you still think it's as simple as WHG = Cro Magnon ?
    Deinekes has links on his blog.

    I don't see why some WHG could not be linked to the Cro-Magnon.

    Leave a comment:


  • Subwoofer
    replied
    still having trouble with links I see : )

    http://horizon-magazine.eu/article/i...nction_en.html

    So after reading this do you still think it's as simple as WHG = Cro Magnon ?

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    http://horizon-magazine.eu/article/i...ink-extinction

    Ice-age Europeans roamed in small bands of fewer than 30, on brink of extinction.


    "Prof. Pinhasi’s team has found that the genomes sequenced from hunter-gatherers from Hungary and Switzerland between 14 000 to 7 500 years ago are very close to specimens from Denmark or Sweden from the same period."

    Leave a comment:


  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    Haplogroup Q crossed the Bering Strait from Siberia. If R or ant other dna haplogroup lived in the region at that time they would have moved with them.
    Out of curiosity, you are aware Q & R are practically brothers aren't you ?

    There's much debate over the exact timing of the crossing into America but one theory is the area formed a refugium that trapped them.

    This could certainly help explain not only the very high levels of ANE in Native Americans but also the lack of R, assuming there was any R in the population that went that way which is not a necessity.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
    Right. They would have crossed the Bering Strait, if they had existed 13,000 years ago. But, of course, they didn't exist.

    And how do you know they didn't exist? You are the same 1798 who insists that the ancestors of modern European R-M269 were in western Europe in Mesolithic times, without any ancient DNA to back up your assertion, right? How do you come up with these "facts" without any evidence at all?

    It's an immutable law, according to 1798, that any R men in Siberia would have crossed over the Bering Strait, if they existed.

    Are you serious??!! This is the worst case of special pleading I've seen in a long time, even from you. You've just pulled this "fact" out of thin air to answer me.

    You really are a piece of work.
    Haplogroup Q crossed the Bering Strait from Siberia. If R or ant other dna haplogroup lived in the region at that time they would have moved with them. Some expect me to believe that that Z2103 and L51 moved together from the Steppe to western Europe and no dna evidence to support it. And, at the same time ignoring the fact that R1a was found in ancient remains in the Steppe.

    It has been not been proved yet that a small group of perhaps less than 50-100 M269 HG forest dwellers survived in western Europe 8000 ybp. That does not mean that they were not there. Some people write that M269 in western Europe did not expand until the BA.

    Leave a comment:


  • N21163
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    You wouldn't understand.
    Really?

    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    A poster at anthrogenica
    "Modelling EHG as WHG and ANE failed, massively!"
    Once again a random post on anthrogenica, no link and no discussion context...

    Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
    Right. They would have crossed the Bering Strait, if they had existed 13,000 years ago. But, of course, they didn't exist.

    And how do you know they didn't exist? You are the same 1798 who insists that the ancestors of modern European R-M269 were in western Europe in Mesolithic times, without any ancient DNA to back up your assertion, right? How do you come up with these "facts" without any evidence at all?

    It's an immutable law, according to 1798, that any R men in Siberia would have crossed over the Bering Strait, if they existed.

    Are you serious??!! This is the worst case of special pleading I've seen in a long time, even from you. You've just pulled this "fact" out of thin air to answer me.

    You really are a piece of work.
    Well said.
    Last edited by N21163; 8 July 2015, 06:18 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • N21163
    replied
    Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
    Well, here's what he's saying:



    As far as what I've bolded from him, this is so self-evident that it's almost absurd for him to state it. Of course, ANE is pre-LGM. Mal'ta boy lived about 24,000 years ago, which sounds like pre-LGM to me!

    As far as his statement after the bolded portion, 1798 makes his usual large assumption without any basis in evidence, at least that he can cite to us to back up his pronouncements. He just assumes here that ANE entered Europe pre-LGM.

    And put that large assumption together with his first statement, claiming that "WHG and EHG both must have come from the Cro Magnons." This is his newest revolutionary thesis. The pre-LGM Europeans (Cro-Magnons) are the source population for not only Europeans, but also Asians. (Remember that Mal'ta boy's remains are in eastern Siberia, close to Mongolia. Not even close to Europe.)

    I guess we'll have to just throw out all the population geneticists' ideas that modern humans came from Africa to the Middle East and then to South and East Asia and that Homo Sapiens (at least the ones we're descended from) entered Europe later, from the Middle East. 1798's assumptions now force us to concede that it was Europeans who came to the Middle East and Asia in the pre-LGM period and not the other way around. I can't wait for 1798 to come up with a statement that Homo Sapiens arose in Europe, not Africa. I think it's not too far off.

    Of course, this would suit his longing for his ancestry to be eternally European, with none of those pesty non-European migrants messing up his self-identity.

    Leave a comment:


  • MMaddi
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    The Cro Magnons of western Europe had a different dna profile to the Cro Magnons of eastern Europe.

    Mal'ta boy died in Siberia at the beginning of the LGM. That is not proof that his ancestors were originally from Siberia. There were no R subgroups in Siberia 13,000 years ago or they would have crossed the Bering Strait.
    Right. They would have crossed the Bering Strait, if they had existed 13,000 years ago. But, of course, they didn't exist.

    And how do you know they didn't exist? You are the same 1798 who insists that the ancestors of modern European R-M269 were in western Europe in Mesolithic times, without any ancient DNA to back up your assertion, right? How do you come up with these "facts" without any evidence at all?

    It's an immutable law, according to 1798, that any R men in Siberia would have crossed over the Bering Strait, if they existed.

    Are you serious??!! This is the worst case of special pleading I've seen in a long time, even from you. You've just pulled this "fact" out of thin air to answer me.

    You really are a piece of work.
    Last edited by MMaddi; 8 July 2015, 04:30 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
    Well, here's what he's saying:



    As far as what I've bolded from him, this is so self-evident that it's almost absurd for him to state it. Of course, ANE is pre-LGM. Mal'ta boy lived about 24,000 years ago, which sounds like pre-LGM to me!

    As far as his statement after the bolded portion, 1798 makes his usual large assumption without any basis in evidence, at least that he can cite to us to back up his pronouncements. He just assumes here that ANE entered Europe pre-LGM.

    And put that large assumption together with his first statement, claiming that "WHG and EHG both must have come from the Cro Magnons." This is his newest revolutionary thesis. The pre-LGM Europeans (Cro-Magnons) are the source population for not only Europeans, but also Asians. (Remember that Mal'ta boy's remains are in eastern Siberia, close to Mongolia. Not even close to Europe.)

    I guess we'll have to just throw out all the population geneticists' ideas that modern humans came from Africa to the Middle East and then to South and East Asia and that Homo Sapiens (at least the ones we're descended from) entered Europe later, from the Middle East. 1798's assumptions now force us to concede that it was Europeans who came to the Middle East and Asia in the pre-LGM period and not the other way around. I can't wait for 1798 to come up with a statement that Homo Sapiens arose in Europe, not Africa. I think it's not too far off.

    Of course, this would suit his longing for his ancestry to be eternally European, with none of those pesty non-European migrants messing up his self-identity.
    The Cro Magnons of western Europe had a different dna profile to the Cro Magnons of eastern Europe.

    Mal'ta boy died in Siberia at the beginning of the LGM. That is not proof that his ancestors were originally from Siberia. There were no R subgroups in Siberia 13,000 years ago or they would have crossed the Bering Strait.

    Leave a comment:


  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
    Well, here's what he's saying:
    As far as what I've bolded from him, this is so self-evident that it's almost absurd for him to state it. Of course, ANE is pre-LGM. Mal'ta boy lived about 24,000 years ago, which sounds like pre-LGM to me!
    Not a climatologist but Alan (who's field is archaeology of course) made an observation that the group Mal'ta boy was found in had probably missed the boat and would have been cut off by the climate change. From memory he theorised the ANE group we descended from likely just got out in the nick of time.

    Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
    I can't wait for 1798 to come up with a statement that Homo Sapiens arose in Europe, not Africa. I think it's not too far off.
    To late, that's already happened : )

    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    I don't know what you are on about. Out of Africa is only a theory. The AMH could have originated in Europe. The mutation could have happened the other way around and we humans are all descended from an ape is another myth. We cannot talk about skin colour without some people getting upset.
    Good guess on your part though : )

    Leave a comment:


  • MMaddi
    replied
    Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
    What on earth are you blathering on about now ?
    Well, here's what he's saying:

    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    WHG+ANE does not equal EHG. WHG and EHG both must have come from the Cro Magnons. The fact that Mal'ta boy had a lot of ANE shows that it was pre LGM. Southern Europeans have smaller amounts of ANE than northern Europeans so there must not have been a lot of north south movement during the LGM.
    As far as what I've bolded from him, this is so self-evident that it's almost absurd for him to state it. Of course, ANE is pre-LGM. Mal'ta boy lived about 24,000 years ago, which sounds like pre-LGM to me!

    As far as his statement after the bolded portion, 1798 makes his usual large assumption without any basis in evidence, at least that he can cite to us to back up his pronouncements. He just assumes here that ANE entered Europe pre-LGM.

    And put that large assumption together with his first statement, claiming that "WHG and EHG both must have come from the Cro Magnons." This is his newest revolutionary thesis. The pre-LGM Europeans (Cro-Magnons) are the source population for not only Europeans, but also Asians. (Remember that Mal'ta boy's remains are in eastern Siberia, close to Mongolia. Not even close to Europe.)

    I guess we'll have to just throw out all the population geneticists' ideas that modern humans came from Africa to the Middle East and then to South and East Asia and that Homo Sapiens (at least the ones we're descended from) entered Europe later, from the Middle East. 1798's assumptions now force us to concede that it was Europeans who came to the Middle East and Asia in the pre-LGM period and not the other way around. I can't wait for 1798 to come up with a statement that Homo Sapiens arose in Europe, not Africa. I think it's not too far off.

    Of course, this would suit his longing for his ancestry to be eternally European, with none of those pesty non-European migrants messing up his self-identity.
    Last edited by MMaddi; 8 July 2015, 12:53 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    You wouldn't understand.

    A poster at anthrogenica
    "Modelling EHG as WHG and ANE failed, massively!"
    Ah I see you're repeating things you've heard and pasting them together to create a collage, very creative : )

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
    What on earth are you blathering on about now ?
    You wouldn't understand.

    A poster at anthrogenica
    "Modelling EHG as WHG and ANE failed, massively!"
    Last edited by 1798; 8 July 2015, 12:10 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    WHG+ANE does not equal EHG. WHG and EHG both must have come from the Cro Magnons. The fact that Mal'ta boy had a lot of ANE shows that it was pre LGM. Southern Europeans have smaller amounts of ANE than northern Europeans so there must not have been a lot of north south movement during the LGM.
    What on earth are you blathering on about now ?

    Leave a comment:

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