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  • #76
    Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
    .

    No the question was, if you think he manipulates his data why do you use his calculators and then post the results all over the internet ?



    Do you know of any other calculators that I can use? His K15 looks alright for Europeans. Heres below is what he wrote about it. He seems to have lost the plot with the Yamnaya results. How can the Scottish be 50% Yamnaya autosomal?

    http://bga101.blogspot.com.au/2013/1...-gedmatch.html

    "I just tried it myself, and have say that the 4-Ancestors Oracle results were impressive. In other words, they were very accurate based on what I know about my recent ancestry. On the other hand, I'd say the default Oracle was picking up more ancient gene flows. However, this might not be the case for everyone, so let's hear some feedback, discuss the outcomes, and perhaps tweak the settings if necessary."

    "He who pays the piper calls the tune."

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by 1798 View Post
      Do you know of any other calculators that I can use? His K15 looks alright for Europeans. Heres below is what he wrote about it. He seems to have lost the plot with the Yamnaya results. How can the Scottish be 50% Yamnaya autosomal?

      http://bga101.blogspot.com.au/2013/1...-gedmatch.html

      "I just tried it myself, and have say that the 4-Ancestors Oracle results were impressive. In other words, they were very accurate based on what I know about my recent ancestry. On the other hand, I'd say the default Oracle was picking up more ancient gene flows. However, this might not be the case for everyone, so let's hear some feedback, discuss the outcomes, and perhaps tweak the settings if necessary."

      "He who pays the piper calls the tune."
      1798 prefers to try and use results from the admixture calculators to justify his statements. I guess people tend to gravitate to what is easy (in their eyes).
      I don't believe there is any current research to support what he is stating. I would welcome 1798 to provide research to substantiate his claims, but he has not been able to do so thus far.

      @1798 "K15 looks alright for Europeans"....

      "alright"...it seems to work for your known ancestry, but as it has been discussed on other threads on this forum it does not work for everyone.

      Of course calculators need "tweaking", refining or a complete overhaul, but if you are hopeful for an absolute that works for everyone then you may be waiting a while.

      This thread has gone off on tangents and has gone in circles and as I have stated throughout you have not provided any research to back up your statement that the "WHG is the dna of the Cro-Magnon".

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by N21163 View Post
        1798 prefers to try and use results from the admixture calculators to justify his statements. I guess people tend to gravitate to what is easy (in their eyes).
        I don't believe there is any current research to support what he is stating. I would welcome 1798 to provide research to substantiate his claims, but he has not been able to do so thus far.

        @1798 "K15 looks alright for Europeans"....

        "alright"...it seems to work for your known ancestry, but as it has been discussed on other threads on this forum it does not work for everyone.

        Of course calculators need "tweaking", refining or a complete overhaul, but if you are hopeful for an absolute that works for everyone then you may be waiting a while.

        This thread has gone off on tangents and has gone in circles and as I have stated throughout you have not provided any research to back up your statement that the "WHG is the dna of the Cro-Magnon".
        You have written a lot about how wrong I am. Why don't you let us all know where we got the WHG?

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by 1798 View Post
          You have written a lot about how wrong I am. Why don't you let us all know where we got the WHG?
          The burden of proof is with you.
          If you go back and read through this thread I have criticised the holes in your argument and highlighted the logical fallacies you have put forward.

          If you can't back it up, and/or don't want to be criticised then don't make such definite statements.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by N21163 View Post
            The burden of proof is with you.
            If you go back and read through this thread I have criticised the holes in your argument and highlighted the logical fallacies you have put forward.

            If you can't back it up, and/or don't want to be criticised then don't make such definite statements.
            The Cro Magnon and early Europeans are one and the same. According to some there were three major movements into western Europe. The Aurignacians, Gravettians and the ENF who were descended from these two groups in the first instance. So stating that the Cro Magnon were the source of WHG is not a fallacy. The source of ANE is not fully understood yet.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by 1798 View Post
              The source of ANE is not fully understood yet.
              I'd say the source of ANE is just as well understood as WHG and EEF and we are getting a handle on how and when the ANE found in Europe today came here. I'm sure that picture (which admittedly is a little out of focus and shaky) will get sharper in the not too distant future.

              David's latest spreadsheet appears to suggest there is a fourth population involved in the mélange which I'm sure we will have much fun tossing about the place if we find out what it is : )

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
                I'd say the source of ANE is just as well understood as WHG and EEF and we are getting a handle on how and when the ANE found in Europe today came here. I'm sure that picture (which admittedly is a little out of focus and shaky) will get sharper in the not too distant future.

                David's latest spreadsheet appears to suggest there is a fourth population involved in the mélange which I'm sure we will have much fun tossing about the place if we find out what it is : )
                WHG+ANE does not equal EHG. WHG and EHG both must have come from the Cro Magnons. The fact that Mal'ta boy had a lot of ANE shows that it was pre LGM. Southern Europeans have smaller amounts of ANE than northern Europeans so there must not have been a lot of north south movement during the LGM.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                  WHG+ANE does not equal EHG. WHG and EHG both must have come from the Cro Magnons. The fact that Mal'ta boy had a lot of ANE shows that it was pre LGM. Southern Europeans have smaller amounts of ANE than northern Europeans so there must not have been a lot of north south movement during the LGM.
                  What on earth are you blathering on about now ?

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
                    What on earth are you blathering on about now ?
                    You wouldn't understand.

                    A poster at anthrogenica
                    "Modelling EHG as WHG and ANE failed, massively!"
                    Last edited by 1798; 8 July 2015, 12:10 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                      You wouldn't understand.

                      A poster at anthrogenica
                      "Modelling EHG as WHG and ANE failed, massively!"
                      Ah I see you're repeating things you've heard and pasting them together to create a collage, very creative : )

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
                        What on earth are you blathering on about now ?
                        Well, here's what he's saying:

                        Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                        WHG+ANE does not equal EHG. WHG and EHG both must have come from the Cro Magnons. The fact that Mal'ta boy had a lot of ANE shows that it was pre LGM. Southern Europeans have smaller amounts of ANE than northern Europeans so there must not have been a lot of north south movement during the LGM.
                        As far as what I've bolded from him, this is so self-evident that it's almost absurd for him to state it. Of course, ANE is pre-LGM. Mal'ta boy lived about 24,000 years ago, which sounds like pre-LGM to me!

                        As far as his statement after the bolded portion, 1798 makes his usual large assumption without any basis in evidence, at least that he can cite to us to back up his pronouncements. He just assumes here that ANE entered Europe pre-LGM.

                        And put that large assumption together with his first statement, claiming that "WHG and EHG both must have come from the Cro Magnons." This is his newest revolutionary thesis. The pre-LGM Europeans (Cro-Magnons) are the source population for not only Europeans, but also Asians. (Remember that Mal'ta boy's remains are in eastern Siberia, close to Mongolia. Not even close to Europe.)

                        I guess we'll have to just throw out all the population geneticists' ideas that modern humans came from Africa to the Middle East and then to South and East Asia and that Homo Sapiens (at least the ones we're descended from) entered Europe later, from the Middle East. 1798's assumptions now force us to concede that it was Europeans who came to the Middle East and Asia in the pre-LGM period and not the other way around. I can't wait for 1798 to come up with a statement that Homo Sapiens arose in Europe, not Africa. I think it's not too far off.

                        Of course, this would suit his longing for his ancestry to be eternally European, with none of those pesty non-European migrants messing up his self-identity.
                        Last edited by MMaddi; 8 July 2015, 12:53 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
                          Well, here's what he's saying:
                          As far as what I've bolded from him, this is so self-evident that it's almost absurd for him to state it. Of course, ANE is pre-LGM. Mal'ta boy lived about 24,000 years ago, which sounds like pre-LGM to me!
                          Not a climatologist but Alan (who's field is archaeology of course) made an observation that the group Mal'ta boy was found in had probably missed the boat and would have been cut off by the climate change. From memory he theorised the ANE group we descended from likely just got out in the nick of time.

                          Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
                          I can't wait for 1798 to come up with a statement that Homo Sapiens arose in Europe, not Africa. I think it's not too far off.
                          To late, that's already happened : )

                          Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                          I don't know what you are on about. Out of Africa is only a theory. The AMH could have originated in Europe. The mutation could have happened the other way around and we humans are all descended from an ape is another myth. We cannot talk about skin colour without some people getting upset.
                          Good guess on your part though : )

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
                            Well, here's what he's saying:



                            As far as what I've bolded from him, this is so self-evident that it's almost absurd for him to state it. Of course, ANE is pre-LGM. Mal'ta boy lived about 24,000 years ago, which sounds like pre-LGM to me!

                            As far as his statement after the bolded portion, 1798 makes his usual large assumption without any basis in evidence, at least that he can cite to us to back up his pronouncements. He just assumes here that ANE entered Europe pre-LGM.

                            And put that large assumption together with his first statement, claiming that "WHG and EHG both must have come from the Cro Magnons." This is his newest revolutionary thesis. The pre-LGM Europeans (Cro-Magnons) are the source population for not only Europeans, but also Asians. (Remember that Mal'ta boy's remains are in eastern Siberia, close to Mongolia. Not even close to Europe.)

                            I guess we'll have to just throw out all the population geneticists' ideas that modern humans came from Africa to the Middle East and then to South and East Asia and that Homo Sapiens (at least the ones we're descended from) entered Europe later, from the Middle East. 1798's assumptions now force us to concede that it was Europeans who came to the Middle East and Asia in the pre-LGM period and not the other way around. I can't wait for 1798 to come up with a statement that Homo Sapiens arose in Europe, not Africa. I think it's not too far off.

                            Of course, this would suit his longing for his ancestry to be eternally European, with none of those pesty non-European migrants messing up his self-identity.
                            The Cro Magnons of western Europe had a different dna profile to the Cro Magnons of eastern Europe.

                            Mal'ta boy died in Siberia at the beginning of the LGM. That is not proof that his ancestors were originally from Siberia. There were no R subgroups in Siberia 13,000 years ago or they would have crossed the Bering Strait.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                              The Cro Magnons of western Europe had a different dna profile to the Cro Magnons of eastern Europe.

                              Mal'ta boy died in Siberia at the beginning of the LGM. That is not proof that his ancestors were originally from Siberia. There were no R subgroups in Siberia 13,000 years ago or they would have crossed the Bering Strait.
                              Right. They would have crossed the Bering Strait, if they had existed 13,000 years ago. But, of course, they didn't exist.

                              And how do you know they didn't exist? You are the same 1798 who insists that the ancestors of modern European R-M269 were in western Europe in Mesolithic times, without any ancient DNA to back up your assertion, right? How do you come up with these "facts" without any evidence at all?

                              It's an immutable law, according to 1798, that any R men in Siberia would have crossed over the Bering Strait, if they existed.

                              Are you serious??!! This is the worst case of special pleading I've seen in a long time, even from you. You've just pulled this "fact" out of thin air to answer me.

                              You really are a piece of work.
                              Last edited by MMaddi; 8 July 2015, 04:30 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
                                Well, here's what he's saying:



                                As far as what I've bolded from him, this is so self-evident that it's almost absurd for him to state it. Of course, ANE is pre-LGM. Mal'ta boy lived about 24,000 years ago, which sounds like pre-LGM to me!

                                As far as his statement after the bolded portion, 1798 makes his usual large assumption without any basis in evidence, at least that he can cite to us to back up his pronouncements. He just assumes here that ANE entered Europe pre-LGM.

                                And put that large assumption together with his first statement, claiming that "WHG and EHG both must have come from the Cro Magnons." This is his newest revolutionary thesis. The pre-LGM Europeans (Cro-Magnons) are the source population for not only Europeans, but also Asians. (Remember that Mal'ta boy's remains are in eastern Siberia, close to Mongolia. Not even close to Europe.)

                                I guess we'll have to just throw out all the population geneticists' ideas that modern humans came from Africa to the Middle East and then to South and East Asia and that Homo Sapiens (at least the ones we're descended from) entered Europe later, from the Middle East. 1798's assumptions now force us to concede that it was Europeans who came to the Middle East and Asia in the pre-LGM period and not the other way around. I can't wait for 1798 to come up with a statement that Homo Sapiens arose in Europe, not Africa. I think it's not too far off.

                                Of course, this would suit his longing for his ancestry to be eternally European, with none of those pesty non-European migrants messing up his self-identity.

                                Comment

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