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  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
    I'd say the source of ANE is just as well understood as WHG and EEF and we are getting a handle on how and when the ANE found in Europe today came here. I'm sure that picture (which admittedly is a little out of focus and shaky) will get sharper in the not too distant future.

    David's latest spreadsheet appears to suggest there is a fourth population involved in the mélange which I'm sure we will have much fun tossing about the place if we find out what it is : )
    WHG+ANE does not equal EHG. WHG and EHG both must have come from the Cro Magnons. The fact that Mal'ta boy had a lot of ANE shows that it was pre LGM. Southern Europeans have smaller amounts of ANE than northern Europeans so there must not have been a lot of north south movement during the LGM.

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  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    The source of ANE is not fully understood yet.
    I'd say the source of ANE is just as well understood as WHG and EEF and we are getting a handle on how and when the ANE found in Europe today came here. I'm sure that picture (which admittedly is a little out of focus and shaky) will get sharper in the not too distant future.

    David's latest spreadsheet appears to suggest there is a fourth population involved in the mélange which I'm sure we will have much fun tossing about the place if we find out what it is : )

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by N21163 View Post
    The burden of proof is with you.
    If you go back and read through this thread I have criticised the holes in your argument and highlighted the logical fallacies you have put forward.

    If you can't back it up, and/or don't want to be criticised then don't make such definite statements.
    The Cro Magnon and early Europeans are one and the same. According to some there were three major movements into western Europe. The Aurignacians, Gravettians and the ENF who were descended from these two groups in the first instance. So stating that the Cro Magnon were the source of WHG is not a fallacy. The source of ANE is not fully understood yet.

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  • N21163
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    You have written a lot about how wrong I am. Why don't you let us all know where we got the WHG?
    The burden of proof is with you.
    If you go back and read through this thread I have criticised the holes in your argument and highlighted the logical fallacies you have put forward.

    If you can't back it up, and/or don't want to be criticised then don't make such definite statements.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by N21163 View Post
    1798 prefers to try and use results from the admixture calculators to justify his statements. I guess people tend to gravitate to what is easy (in their eyes).
    I don't believe there is any current research to support what he is stating. I would welcome 1798 to provide research to substantiate his claims, but he has not been able to do so thus far.

    @1798 "K15 looks alright for Europeans"....

    "alright"...it seems to work for your known ancestry, but as it has been discussed on other threads on this forum it does not work for everyone.

    Of course calculators need "tweaking", refining or a complete overhaul, but if you are hopeful for an absolute that works for everyone then you may be waiting a while.

    This thread has gone off on tangents and has gone in circles and as I have stated throughout you have not provided any research to back up your statement that the "WHG is the dna of the Cro-Magnon".
    You have written a lot about how wrong I am. Why don't you let us all know where we got the WHG?

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  • N21163
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    Do you know of any other calculators that I can use? His K15 looks alright for Europeans. Heres below is what he wrote about it. He seems to have lost the plot with the Yamnaya results. How can the Scottish be 50% Yamnaya autosomal?

    http://bga101.blogspot.com.au/2013/1...-gedmatch.html

    "I just tried it myself, and have say that the 4-Ancestors Oracle results were impressive. In other words, they were very accurate based on what I know about my recent ancestry. On the other hand, I'd say the default Oracle was picking up more ancient gene flows. However, this might not be the case for everyone, so let's hear some feedback, discuss the outcomes, and perhaps tweak the settings if necessary."

    "He who pays the piper calls the tune."
    1798 prefers to try and use results from the admixture calculators to justify his statements. I guess people tend to gravitate to what is easy (in their eyes).
    I don't believe there is any current research to support what he is stating. I would welcome 1798 to provide research to substantiate his claims, but he has not been able to do so thus far.

    @1798 "K15 looks alright for Europeans"....

    "alright"...it seems to work for your known ancestry, but as it has been discussed on other threads on this forum it does not work for everyone.

    Of course calculators need "tweaking", refining or a complete overhaul, but if you are hopeful for an absolute that works for everyone then you may be waiting a while.

    This thread has gone off on tangents and has gone in circles and as I have stated throughout you have not provided any research to back up your statement that the "WHG is the dna of the Cro-Magnon".

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
    .

    No the question was, if you think he manipulates his data why do you use his calculators and then post the results all over the internet ?



    Do you know of any other calculators that I can use? His K15 looks alright for Europeans. Heres below is what he wrote about it. He seems to have lost the plot with the Yamnaya results. How can the Scottish be 50% Yamnaya autosomal?

    http://bga101.blogspot.com.au/2013/1...-gedmatch.html

    "I just tried it myself, and have say that the 4-Ancestors Oracle results were impressive. In other words, they were very accurate based on what I know about my recent ancestry. On the other hand, I'd say the default Oracle was picking up more ancient gene flows. However, this might not be the case for everyone, so let's hear some feedback, discuss the outcomes, and perhaps tweak the settings if necessary."

    "He who pays the piper calls the tune."

    Leave a comment:


  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    It must bother you then
    .

    No the question was, if you think he manipulates his data why do you use his calculators and then post the results all over the internet ?


    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    I would like FTDNA to produce one that is accurate, like the one that they used for myOrigins that showed that I have 98% Isles ancestry.
    Presumably this was when their Beta version : )

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
    Then why do you insist on inundating forums with outputs from his calculators ?


    It must bother you then. I read David's blog every day and he makes his views known. We don't have any other calculators to compare our results and I would like FTDNA to produce one that is accurate, like the one that they used for myOrigins that showed that I have 98% Isles ancestry.

    Leave a comment:


  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    I think that David can manipulate the data to suit his views.
    Then why do you insist on inundating forums with outputs from his calculators ?

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
    I'm not entirely sure what your MtDNA haplogroup has to do with a conversation about autosomal DNA ?

    You probably won't be very impressed but David has produced another of his admixture calculators, this one reported to estimate the amount of Steppe ancestry. However his spreadsheet lacks Irish so is clearly useless : )

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.co.uk/2015...a-related.html

    http://www.humanjourney.us/europe2.html
    "That Gravettian lineages provide well over half the genetic endowment of present-day Europeans, while the Aurignacian lines account for only about 10%, gives an indication of the survival advantages of the Gravettians."
    I thint that it is fair to say that we got our WHG from the Gravettians.



    I think that David can manipulate the data to suit his views.

    Leave a comment:


  • Subwoofer
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    You tell me then how ANE got to Ireland. I belong to U5b which is a WE Mesolithic marker.
    I'm not entirely sure what your MtDNA haplogroup has to do with a conversation about autosomal DNA ?

    You probably won't be very impressed but David has produced another of his admixture calculators, this one reported to estimate the amount of Steppe ancestry. However his spreadsheet lacks Irish so is clearly useless : )

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.co.uk/2015...a-related.html

    Leave a comment:


  • japhethite
    replied
    In the world i have seen claims that Cro-Magnons (upper palaeolothics, hunters) are related to Otmaids and big game hunters of prehistoric North America, and to the MacKenzie river high Arctic culture, American Indians?; Guanches, Libyans; Nordics ("descs of CM return to Europe"). [Sumerians and Indus were "Aurignacian / (Combe-)Capelids".]

    In the bible Cro-Magnons seeming my match either/both of Magog ["roof/ceiling/mountain/God" / "out of (&) to increase" / "the roof of something rising"~ Cro-Magnons of last great ice age maximum, &/or Russia],
    and/or,
    Nimrod (a Gibbor/"giant"/"mighty" hunter).

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
    How can this possibly be evidence of ANE entering Ireland in the Mesolithic ?
    You tell me then how ANE got to Ireland. I belong to U5b which is a WE Mesolithic marker.

    Leave a comment:


  • N21163
    replied
    Originally posted by Subwoofer View Post
    How can this possibly be evidence of ANE entering Ireland in the Mesolithic ?



    Logic trap number 11 I believe, 'appeal to authority' : )

    Leave a comment:

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