The Lost Tribe, M269

[1798]

It is hard to believe that we who are M269 were at some time in the distant past a lost tribe. Here below is the proof. It would be good for all of us who are M269 if the sientists could find the location.

"L483L478L773L482L265L500M269L407YSC0000294YSC0000194YSC0000225YSC0000203
YSC0000213YSC0000219s10s3CTS8728F1794CTS12478PF650 7PF6509PF6520PF6265PF6404PF6409PF6411CTS623PF6425P F6430PF6432PF6434PF6438PF6443CTS2664CTS3575PF6469P F6470PF6477PF6479PF6500PF6494PF6495CTS10834"

Here is a link to the lost tribes of today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontacted_peoples

[thetick]

How is this proof of anything.

Why do you constantly spew such nonsense.

[1798]

How is this proof of anything.

Why do you constantly spew such nonsense.

It is proof that all L11 males come from one 6000 year old Y-line. An isolated line as well. Can you not see it?

[1798]

Some people have the ability to see things that most people cannot see.

[Subwoofer]

Some people have the ability to see things that most people cannot see.

So you're claiming to be some sort of visionary now because you've just noticed R1b went through a bottle neck : )))

BTW aren't you supposed to be under a self imposed embargo discussing things like the R1b refugium before there's more aDNA from Ireland and Scotland ???

[1798]

So you're claiming to be some sort of visionary now because you've just noticed R1b went through a bottle neck : )))

BTW aren't you supposed to be under a self imposed embargo discussing things like the R1b refugium before there's more aDNA from Ireland and Scotland ???

I know that you will have to eat some of your words some day in the future.

[T E Peterman]

Each SNP is descended from just one man. No big news there.

But there is a huge stack of SNPs nested between M269 & L23. 38 such SNPs per Yfull. Other lines of descent probably existed, but have either died out, or simply not been found yet because Kazakhstan, etc. are poorly sampled.

I strongly encourage anyone who is M269* or L23*, regardless of where he lives, to do the Big Y test.

Timothy Peterman

[1798]

Each SNP is descended from just one man. No big news there.

But there is a huge stack of SNPs nested between M269 & L23. 38 such SNPs per Yfull. Other lines of descent probably existed, but have either died out, or simply not been found yet because Kazakhstan, etc. are poorly sampled.

I strongly encourage anyone who is M269* or L23*, regardless of where he lives, to do the Big Y test.

Timothy Peterman

Why Kazakhstan? Do you think that this was the region that the 43 SNPs occurred? This M269 mystery must be solved first before we can move to next stage.

[1798]

Each SNP is descended from just one man. No big news there.

But there is a huge stack of SNPs nested between M269 & L23. 38 such SNPs per Yfull. Other lines of descent probably existed, but have either died out, or simply not been found yet because Kazakhstan, etc. are poorly sampled.

I strongly encourage anyone who is M269* or L23*, regardless of where he lives, to do the Big Y test.

Timothy Peterman

@Timothy
I read about the lost tribes in the jungles who have less than 100 members. The males and females each may belong to a single haplogroup. This is where I got the idea for our M269 ancestors and the bottleneck.

[T E Peterman]

Actually, each bottleneck can be resolved independently of the others. If you had bolded the "etc" in my earlier response, you would have been more on the mark. Kazakhstan was merely an example.

I don't think you're going to find the lost 43 (or 38) SNP generations of M269 in western Europe.

Timothy Peterman

[1798]

Actually, each bottleneck can be resolved independently of the others. If you had bolded the "etc" in my earlier response, you would have been more on the mark. Kazakhstan was merely an example.

I don't think you're going to find the lost 43 (or 38) SNP generations of M269 in western Europe.

Timothy Peterman

I think that it may not be possible. I hope that people understand now why we are not finding R1b M269 in ancient remains in western Europe or anywhere else for that matter. A needle in a haystack would be simpler to find.

[T E Peterman]

Perhaps someone in the ht35 project can give us an estimate of roughly what percentage of M269+ men are actually M269* (ie, L23-).

It's important to remember that between 11,000 BC & a few thousand years ago, there could have been a number of other lines of descent from the M269 MRCA, which have now gone extinct. So it wasn't necessarily a situation, where a narrow trail of father-son kinships held the haplogroup together for 7,000 years. If they were in the Pontic Steppe region or points further east, which is plausible, it is possible that they were displaced by incoming Turkic, etc. peoples a few thousand years ago; a process similar to what happened to I1 in western Europe in about 2500 BC. In the latter case, invaders, who brought the Bronze Age & horseback riding into western Europe, severely reduced the indigenous population, reducing I1 to almost nothing.

Timothy Peterman

[1798]

Perhaps someone in the ht35 project can give us an estimate of roughly what percentage of M269+ men are actually M269* (ie, L23-).

It's important to remember that between 11,000 BC & a few thousand years ago, there could have been a number of other lines of descent from the M269 MRCA, which have now gone extinct. So it wasn't necessarily a situation, where a narrow trail of father-son kinships held the haplogroup together for 7,000 years. If they were in the Pontic Steppe region or points further east, which is plausible, it is possible that they were displaced by incoming Turkic, etc. peoples a few thousand years ago; a process similar to what happened to I1 in western Europe in about 2500 BC. In the latter case, invaders, who brought the Bronze Age & horseback riding into western Europe, severely reduced the indigenous population, reducing I1 to almost nothing.

Timothy Peterman

It is also plausible that the group survived in western or central Europe. It does not help that some people still want to make R1b the main vehicle of the PIE. That is nothing to do with science.

[Armando]

1798 is going to continue with the same old arguments no matter who says what. He lives in his bubble and refuses to let anyone pop it.

[1798]

1798 is going to continue with the same old arguments no matter who says what. He lives in his bubble and refuses to let anyone pop it.

You also live in a bubble and it will burst when we get some ancient tests from the Isles.

Did R1a carry the PIE into western Europe? The Steppe is full of R1a branches.