The Basques

[1798]

The Basques speak a non IE language which is said to be one of the oldest languages in Europe. The Basques are around 80% R1b most of which is P312 derived. They had no links with the Yamnaya Culture.

[Armando]

The Basques speak a non IE language which is said to be one of the oldest languages in Europe. The Basques are around 80% R1b most of which is P312 derived. They had no links with the Yamnaya Culture.

Of course they do. It's called P312. The Basque also now live in what was actually a Celtic speaking region prior to the Roman invasion. The Indo-European speaking P312 in the region learned to speak Basque.

[1798]

Of course they do. It's called P312. The Basque also now live in what was actually a Celtic speaking region prior to the Roman invasion. The Indo-European speaking P312 in the region learned to speak Basque.

P312 did not come from the Steppe. The seven Yamnaya men who died in the Steppe were Z2103.

The Basques still live in the region that their ancestors lived in and still speak the same language as their ancestors spoke.

[Armando]

P312 did not come from the Steppe. The seven Yamnaya men who died in the Steppe were Z2103.

You just love to ignore the truth. Not all the Steppe people were Z2103. A Yamnaya related people from the Steppe went to western Europe and either took P312 with them or it developed there by their people.

The Basques still live in the region that their ancestors lived in

You are making things up again.

and still speak the same language as their ancestors spoke.

Only some of their ancestors spoke Euskara. They had Y-DNA I2a1. Their P312 ancestors spoke an Indo-European language.

[1798]

You just love to ignore the truth. Not all the Steppe people were Z2103. A Yamnaya related people from the Steppe went to western Europe and either took P312 with them or it developed there by their people.


You are making things up again.


Only some of their ancestors spoke Euskara. They had Y-DNA I2a1. Their P312 ancestors spoke an Indo-European language.

That would not be possible as P312 was born in Iberia, unless they went to the Steppe and brought the language back with them.

You don't understand that the seven Z2103 men in the Steppe did not go anywhere. That was were they were buried. Where they were born no one knows.

There isn't a scientist on the planet who would say that there was only one Y haplogroup in the Basque region 7000 ybp.

You are the one trying to make the PIE language fit with P312 and you will fail.

[1798]

La Brana mans autosomal dna was typical of the dna that was in this region 7000 ybp.


La Brana 7000 Iberia
Population * *
North_Sea 29.34%
Atlantic 30.24%
Baltic 28.15%
Eastern_Euro 11.87%
West_Med - * *
West_Asian - * *
East_Med - * *
Red_Sea - * *
South_Asian - * *
Southeast_Asian - * *
Siberian - * *
Amerindian - * *
Oceanian 0.40%
Northeast_African - * *
Sub-Saharan - * *

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Irish + Irish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian @ 10.405072
2 Irish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + West_Scottish @ 10.506998
3 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 10.622088
4 Irish + Irish + La_Brana-1 + Lithuanian @ 10.768566
5 Belorussian + Irish + Irish + Lithuanian @ 10.817389
6 Estonian + Irish + Irish + Lithuanian @ 10.859822
7 Irish + La_Brana-1 + Lithuanian + West_Scottish @ 10.914764
8 Belorussian + Irish + Lithuanian + West_Scottish @ 10.926410
9 Irish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Southeast_English @ 10.944150
10 Danish + Irish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian @ 10.959003
11 Irish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Orcadian @ 10.959280
12 Irish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + North_Dutch @ 10.960265
13 Irish + La_Brana-1 + Lithuanian + North_German @ 10.991408
14 Estonian + Irish + Lithuanian + West_Scottish @ 11.019946
15 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 11.041262
16 Irish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + North_German @ 11.043326
17 Belorussian + Lithuanian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 11.047952
18 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 11.067364
19 Danish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + West_Scottish @ 11.071273
20 La_Brana-1 + Lithuanian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 11.073080

[N21163]

La Brana mans autosomal dna was typical of the dna that was in this region 7000 ybp.


La Brana 7000 Iberia
Population * *
North_Sea 29.34%
Atlantic 30.24%
Baltic 28.15%
Eastern_Euro 11.87%
West_Med - * *
West_Asian - * *
East_Med - * *
Red_Sea - * *
South_Asian - * *
Southeast_Asian - * *
Siberian - * *
Amerindian - * *
Oceanian 0.40%
Northeast_African - * *
Sub-Saharan - * *

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Irish + Irish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian @ 10.405072
2 Irish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + West_Scottish @ 10.506998
3 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 10.622088
4 Irish + Irish + La_Brana-1 + Lithuanian @ 10.768566
5 Belorussian + Irish + Irish + Lithuanian @ 10.817389
6 Estonian + Irish + Irish + Lithuanian @ 10.859822
7 Irish + La_Brana-1 + Lithuanian + West_Scottish @ 10.914764
8 Belorussian + Irish + Lithuanian + West_Scottish @ 10.926410
9 Irish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Southeast_English @ 10.944150
10 Danish + Irish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian @ 10.959003
11 Irish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Orcadian @ 10.959280
12 Irish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + North_Dutch @ 10.960265
13 Irish + La_Brana-1 + Lithuanian + North_German @ 10.991408
14 Estonian + Irish + Lithuanian + West_Scottish @ 11.019946
15 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 11.041262
16 Irish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + North_German @ 11.043326
17 Belorussian + Lithuanian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 11.047952
18 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 11.067364
19 Danish + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + West_Scottish @ 11.071273
20 La_Brana-1 + Lithuanian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 11.073080

http://forums.familytreedna.com/showpost.php?p=405724&postcount=30

[Armando]

That would not be possible as P312 was born in Iberia, unless they went to the Steppe and brought the language back with them.

P312 was not born in Iberia. Why do you keep making things up?

You don't understand that the seven Z2103 men in the Steppe did not go anywhere. That was were they were buried. Where they were born no one knows.

I understand what you don't want to accept. The seven Z2103 men had relatives in the western part of the Steppe that took R1b-M269 into western Europe.

There isn't a scientist on the planet who would say that there was only one Y haplogroup in the Basque region 7000 ybp.

R1b-M269 wasn't in the Basque region 7,000 ybp so that is a moot point.

You are the one trying to make the PIE language fit with P312 and you will fail.

It fits. You are the one trying to bang the square into the round hole.

[1798]

P312 was not born in Iberia. Why do you keep making things up?


I understand what you don't want to accept. The seven Z2103 men had relatives in the western part of the Steppe that took R1b-M269 into western Europe.


R1b-M269 wasn't in the Basque region 7,000 ybp so that is a moot point.


It fits. You are the one trying to bang the square into the round hole.

R1b in Iberia is 90% P312 derived. I am not making it up. Check the dna studies.

"The seven Z2103 men had relatives in the western part of the Steppe that took R1b-M269 into western Europe."
Nonsense. There is not one ounce of proof. In fact the seven Yamnaya had North Sea autosomal dna. The majority of R1b in western Europe is L11 derived.

[Armando]

R1b in Iberia is 90% P312 derived. I am not making it up. Check the dna studies.

I have read all of the published studies that contain P312. None of them state that Ibiera is 90% P312 derived. So you are making that up. A source and a sink don't always have the same location. So you making inferences without proof so you are making that up also.

"The seven Z2103 men had relatives in the western part of the Steppe that took R1b-M269 into western Europe."
Nonsense. There is not one ounce of proof. In fact the seven Yamnaya had North Sea autosomal dna. The majority of R1b in western Europe is L11 derived.

There hasn't been a single ancient specimen found in western Europe that was R1b-M269+ until Bell Beaker. The only older R1b-M269+ ancient specimens have been found in the Steppe.

I know that scientific evidence doesn't mean anything to you so I know you'll come up with yet another unscientific statement.

[1798]

I have read all of the published studies that contain P312. None of them state that Ibiera is 90% P312 derived. So you are making that up. A source and a sink don't always have the same location. So you making inferences without proof so you are making that up also.


There hasn't been a single ancient specimen found in western Europe that was R1b-M269+ until Bell Beaker. The only older R1b-M269+ ancient specimens have been found in the Steppe.

I know that scientific evidence doesn't mean anything to you so I know you'll come up with yet another unscientific statement.

So which R1b types are in Iberia? U106 and P312 are the dominant branches in western Europe. There is very little U106 in Iberia. DF27 and L21, both sons of P312 are the most common types that are there.

[Armando]

So which R1b types are in Iberia? U106 and P312 are the dominant branches in western Europe. There is very little U106 in Iberia. DF27 and L21, both sons of P312 are the most common types that are there.

1. A sink and a source aren't always in the same place. That is the case here.

2. The only place in Iberia that M269 reaches 90% is in Gipuskoa. The País Vasco is 86.84% M269 overall and 82.26% P312. All of the R1b in Spain including País Vasco is 69%. P312 is around 64%.

[1798]

1. A sink and a source aren't always in the same place. That is the case here.

2. The only place in Iberia that M269 reaches 90% is in Gipuskoa. The País Vasco is 86.84% M269 overall and 82.26% P312. All of the R1b in Spain including País Vasco is 69%. P312 is around 64%.

So U106 is 36%? I don't know of any region in Europe that is 64% U106.

[MMaddi]

So U106 is 36%? I don't know of any region in Europe that is 64% U106.

I believe that Armando means that R1b of any kind in Spain adds up to 69% of Spanish men. The P312 portion of R1b is 64%. That leaves 5% for U106 and other types of R1b. That sounds about right to me.

[1798]

I believe that Armando means that R1b of any kind in Spain adds up to 69% of Spanish men. The P312 portion of R1b is 64%. That leaves 5% for U106 and other types of R1b. That sounds about right to me.

Besides P312 and U106 what other branches of R1b which make up 31% are there in Iberia?