Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Megalithic People

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Megalithic People

    http://www.ucc.ie/en/archaeology/res...urelienburlot/

    "During the Neolithic period, evidence of contacts between different parts of Europe is illustrated by long distance exchanges of artefacts, but also by the constructions of megalithic structures. Research regarding passage tomb building during the fourth millennium BC, show that ideas or people travelling along the Atlantic façade from Iberia to Ireland and Britain, resulted in comparable monuments and similar megalithic art styles (Shee Twohig 1981). Then, during the first half of the third millennium BC, the evidence of contacts between the Continent and the two islands appears to have ceased. Instead, new belief systems travelled across the Irish Sea, with the construction of henges and the erection of timber circles, associated with Grooved Ware ceramic, in the vicinity of older passage tombs.

    During the second half of the third millennium BC, renewed contacts with the Continent is evident by the introduction of copper metallurgy in Ireland. In France, the earliest evidence of metallurgy has been determined in the southern Languedoc region, within pre-Beaker communities, probably with influences from Iberia c. 2700 BC. Once metallurgy was adopted, it spread northward along the Atlantic coast reaching north-western France and Brittany in particular, where Beaker contexts are the earliest. Similarly, the earliest evidence of metallurgy in Ireland can be associated with the ‘Beaker folk’, with the discovery of the copper mines and metalwork camp at Ross Island, near Killarney, Co. Kerry (O’Brien 2004). Scientific analyses of early Irish copper artefacts indicate that, the arsenicated copper from Ross Island was distributed across Ireland and Britain at this time. The use of such metal is similar to other early Iberian and French metal artefacts, and this suggests a continental origin of the technology to Ireland."

  • #2
    I've read that elsewhere (e.g. southern Urals) about bronze made from copper and arsenic, instead of hard-to-find tin and copper. Maybe they didn't know about arsenic being a poison.
    Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 12 March 2015, 10:23 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
      I've read that elsewhere (e.g. southern Urals) about bronze made from copper and arsenic, instead of hard-to-find tin and copper. Maybe they didn't know about arsenic being a poison.
      Arsenical bronze was quite widespread, see for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic...nze#References. And the ancient people seemed to be aware of its toxicity during manufacturing.

      On the other hand, we know that arsenic compounds are toxic and we still use them.

      W. (Mr.)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dna View Post
        Arsenical bronze was quite widespread, see for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic...nze#References. And the ancient people seemed to be aware of its toxicity during manufacturing.

        On the other hand, we know that arsenic compounds are toxic and we still use them.

        W. (Mr.)
        Do you think that they may be the cause of some of the mutations in the Y chromosome?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 1798 View Post
          Do you think that they may be the cause of some of the mutations in the Y chromosome?
          I have no idea. PubMed search might offer an answer whether any research was done in that area.

          Although, I am skeptical that there was any. Why?

          Arsenic compounds are known to be carcinogenic, but since they are also known to be evidently toxic I doubt there is any interest in finding how they are carcinogenic... As with lots of toxic stuff around us, we appear to hope that it would go away someday just by itself...

          W. (Mr.)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by dna View Post
            I have no idea. PubMed search might offer an answer whether any research was done in that area.

            Although, I am skeptical that there was any. Why?

            Arsenic compounds are known to be carcinogenic, but since they are also known to be evidently toxic I doubt there is any interest in finding how they are carcinogenic... As with lots of toxic stuff around us, we appear to hope that it would go away someday just by itself...

            W. (Mr.)
            Some of the Z156 testers have a lot of SNPs and YSTR mutations. Z156 is estimated to have an origin in the Copper Age.

            Comment


            • #7
              To be more specific, I read about the southern Urals connection to bronze-making in David Anthony's "The Horse, the Wheel, and Language". He doesn't say much about DNA. He is an archaeologist. If I recall right, he says even today copper ore can easily be seen there in rock outcrops. I don't know if those Ancients knew about using tin or not. But they chose to make their bronze with arsenic material. Bronze-making was intense there due to demands from chariot warfare going on. So I can agree with mutations caused by prolonged exposures to arsenic, although what do I know about it (ha ha!).

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                To be more specific, I read about the southern Urals connection to bronze-making in David Anthony's "The Horse, the Wheel, and Language". He doesn't say much about DNA. He is an archaeologist. If I recall right, he says even today copper ore can easily be seen there in rock outcrops. I don't know if those Ancients knew about using tin or not. But they chose to make their bronze with arsenic material. Bronze-making was intense there due to demands from chariot warfare going on. So I can agree with mutations caused by prolonged exposures to arsenic, although what do I know about it (ha ha!).
                Anthony is living in fantasy island.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                  Anthony is living in fantasy island.
                  Based on what PDHOLTEN said, why would David Anthony be living in fantasy land?

                  Do you not agree with what was said about copper ore? The process of making bronze or chariot warfare?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by N21163 View Post
                    Based on what PDHOLTEN said, why would David Anthony be living in fantasy land?

                    Do you not agree with what was said about copper ore? The process of making bronze or chariot warfare?
                    Some experts in Ireland believe that the people who worked the ancient copper mines in Ireland came from France.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Without straining my old eyes by looking stuff up in Anthony's book (I own a copy), there is a time line to consider. Those chariot wars came along quite late. Copper mining and bronze alloys began much earlier. It was after the domestication of the horse when all that social turbulence took place. Before then people were rather sedentary. In the steppe grassland region they lived along rivers before domesticating horses. Anyway, they were probably, at least in part, R1a (my cousins). While those laborers with strong backs building megaliths in western Europe were probably R1b.
                      Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 15 March 2015, 01:01 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Could the tribes back then have two lines, R1a and R1b at the same time ? Most of tribes? Some of them?

                        W. (Mr.)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dna View Post
                          Could the tribes back then have two lines, R1a and R1b at the same time ? Most of tribes? Some of them?

                          W. (Mr.)
                          The Megalithic people belonged to multiple haplogroups.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X