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Eurogenes K13 and K15 4-Ancestors Oracle

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  • #76
    Originally posted by N21163 View Post
    Possibly but I wouldn't bank on it.

    You feel that you have a firm grasp on your family history and have stated that you 16GG were all Irish.

    From this though we can't state that people with the same or similar North Sea percentages (or alike) to you are Irish, European yes but that's about it.
    There must be some clever guy out there who can separate Irish dna from the other Europeans. Are the genetic scientists not up to the task? Maybe they should look for a job that they can do.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by 1798 View Post
      There must be some clever guy out there who can separate Irish dna from the other Europeans.
      In time with further developments and new research that comes to light.

      While you are eager to find answers, at this stage these algorithms have limitations and focusing on percentages of these constructed groupings i.e. "North Sea" etc will not give you the answers you are looking for.

      Originally posted by 1798 View Post
      Are the genetic scientists not up to the task? Maybe they should look for a job that they can do.
      What are you trying to say Ciaran?

      Do you believe genetic scientists are just twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do?

      Aside from the multitude of other projects they will be working on there's always room for development but it comes down to funding, project groups, cross-discipline studies and interest areas.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by N21163 View Post
        In time with further developments and new research that comes to light.

        While you are eager to find answers, at this stage these algorithms have limitations and focusing on percentages of these constructed groupings i.e. "North Sea" etc will not give you the answers you are looking for.



        What are you trying to say Ciaran?

        Do you believe genetic scientists are just twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do?

        Aside from the multitude of other projects they will be working on there's always room for development but it comes down to funding, project groups, cross-discipline studies and interest areas.
        I understand that they have more important issues than our ancestral lines but it would only take one of them to find a way to resolve a lot of these issues. He or she could be given that single task to focus on.Surely there is enough funding for that.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by 1798 View Post
          I understand that they have more important issues than our ancestral lines but it would only take one of them to find a way to resolve a lot of dna issues. He or she could be given that single task to focus on.Surely there is enough funding for that.
          It would take someone with a little bit of imagination.

          "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination." - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by MikeP View Post
            Here are my K15 results:


            Admix Results (sorted):

            # Population Percent
            1 North_Sea 34.80
            2 Atlantic 28.54
            3 Baltic 10.01
            4 West_Med 9.92
            5 Eastern_Euro 9.70
            6 West_Asian 6.02


            Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
            15 components mode.

            --------------------------------

            Least-squares method.

            Using 1 population approximation:
            1 Southwest_English @ 3.977841
            2 Southeast_English @ 4.509333
            3 Irish @ 5.489300
            4 West_Scottish @ 5.726855
            5 North_Dutch @ 5.885452
            6 Danish @ 5.993276
            7 North_German @ 6.247803
            8 Orcadian @ 6.496437
            9 South_Dutch @ 7.348049
            10 Norwegian @ 9.636036
            11 West_German @ 9.683813
            12 West_Norwegian @ 10.604095
            13 Swedish @ 11.159334
            14 French @ 12.316778
            15 North_Swedish @ 13.633124
            16 East_German @ 14.211920
            17 Southwest_Finnish @ 18.192291
            18 Austrian @ 19.186045
            19 Hungarian @ 20.097219
            20 Spanish_Cataluna @ 20.943020

            Using 2 populations approximation:
            1 50% Orcadian +50% South_Dutch @ 3.732604


            Using 3 populations approximation:
            1 50% Orcadian +25% South_Dutch +25% South_Dutch @ 3.732604


            Using 4 populations approximation:
            1 North_German + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.412429
            2 North_German + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.452722
            3 East_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.509201
            4 North_German + Orcadian + South_Dutch + Southwest_English @ 3.550707
            5 North_German + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.576926
            6 North_German + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.584287
            7 Danish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.617402
            8 Irish + North_German + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.630312
            9 Orcadian + South_Dutch + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.651769
            10 North_Dutch + Orcadian + South_Dutch + Southwest_English @ 3.653167
            11 Danish + Orcadian + South_Dutch + Southwest_English @ 3.663790
            12 North_Dutch + North_German + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.666120
            13 Orcadian + South_Dutch + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.669039
            14 Irish + Orcadian + South_Dutch + Southwest_English @ 3.674242
            15 Danish + North_German + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.681174
            16 East_German + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.684773
            17 East_German + Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.688895
            18 North_Dutch + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.690384
            19 Orcadian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 3.730864
            20 Orcadian + Orcadian + South_Dutch + South_Dutch @ 3.732604

            So what happened to the Irish?
            Which calculator do you think is best for your ancestral lines that you know about?

            Comment


            • #81
              K13 maybe - although I think it shows too much Irish, whereas K15 doesn't really show any. I do have a paper link to Ireland, but too many paper lines seem to point elsewhere in the British Isles ...

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by MikeP View Post
                K13 maybe - although I think it shows too much Irish, whereas K15 doesn't really show any. I do have a paper link to Ireland, but too many paper lines seem to point elsewhere in the British Isles ...
                My K13
                Population * *
                North_Atlantic 50.60%
                Baltic 25.73%
                West_Med 11.33%
                West_Asian 6.69%
                East_Med 1.74%
                Red_Sea - * *
                South_Asian 2.48%
                East_Asian - * *
                Siberian - * *
                Amerindian 0.77%
                Oceanian 0.24%
                Northeast_African 0.42%
                Sub-Saharan - * *


                Yamnaya 10231
                Population * *
                North_Atlantic 25.00%
                Baltic 41.63%
                West_Med - * *
                West_Asian 24.26%
                East_Med - * *
                Red_Sea - * *
                South_Asian 4.11%
                East_Asian - * *
                Siberian - * *
                Amerindian 4.99%
                Oceanian - * *
                Northeast_African - * *
                Sub-Saharan - * *

                This Yamnaya man who died in Samara 4,900 ybp had western Eurpean dna.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                  I understand that they have more important issues than our ancestral lines but it would only take one of them to find a way to resolve a lot of these issues. He or she could be given that single task to focus on.Surely there is enough funding for that.
                  I don't know how much you know about research funding, but it is unfortunately not that simple (though many wish it was simpler!!). Funding is usually given for specific sponsored projects, not a lump sum to do with as scientists please.

                  One scientist may be able to resolve some of the issues but I think a cross-discipline team is generally what's needed. A number of disciplines working together can compliment one another.

                  Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                  My K13
                  Population * *
                  North_Atlantic 50.60%
                  Baltic 25.73%
                  West_Med 11.33%
                  West_Asian 6.69%
                  East_Med 1.74%
                  Red_Sea - * *
                  South_Asian 2.48%
                  East_Asian - * *
                  Siberian - * *
                  Amerindian 0.77%
                  Oceanian 0.24%
                  Northeast_African 0.42%
                  Sub-Saharan - * *


                  Yamnaya 10231
                  Population * *
                  North_Atlantic 25.00%
                  Baltic 41.63%
                  West_Med - * *
                  West_Asian 24.26%
                  East_Med - * *
                  Red_Sea - * *
                  South_Asian 4.11%
                  East_Asian - * *
                  Siberian - * *
                  Amerindian 4.99%
                  Oceanian - * *
                  Northeast_African - * *
                  Sub-Saharan - * *

                  This Yamnaya man who died in Samara 4,900 ybp had western Eurpean dna.
                  "Western European" DNA? How so?

                  The Yamnaya results according to the K13 algorithm are not typically Western European.

                  In addition, all of these algorithms have limitations, so there will be some stranger results in some over others.
                  Last edited by N21163; 11 March 2015, 04:59 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by N21163 View Post
                    I don't know how much you know about research funding, but it is unfortunately not that simple (though many wish it was simpler!!). Funding is usually given for specific sponsored projects, not a lump sum to do with as scientists please.

                    One scientist may be able to resolve some of the issues but I think a cross-discipline team is generally what's needed. A number of disciplines working together can compliment one another.



                    "Western European" DNA? How so?

                    The Yamnaya results according to the K13 algorithm are not typically Western European.

                    In addition, all of these algorithms have limitations, so there will be some stranger results in some over others.


                    Yamnaya K15
                    Population * *
                    North_Sea 28.14%
                    Atlantic 4.42%

                    Baltic 11.27%
                    Eastern_Euro 33.52%
                    West_Med - * *
                    West_Asian 14.93%
                    East_Med - * *
                    Red_Sea - * *
                    South_Asian 4.06%
                    Southeast_Asian - * *
                    Siberian - * *
                    Amerindian 3.66%
                    Oceanian - * *

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Comparing my Kit and F999918 (Loschbour, Lux., 8ky)
                      Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
                      Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
                      Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
                      Largest segment = 5.1 cM
                      Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 467.1 cM

                      Comparing my Kit and F999916 (LBK, Stuttgart, 7ky)
                      Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
                      Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
                      Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
                      Largest segment = 4.7 cM
                      Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 558.0 cM

                      Comparing my Kit and M951285 (Yamnaya I0231) 4,900 ky
                      Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
                      Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
                      Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
                      Largest segment = 6.5 cM 175 SNPs
                      Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 77.0 cM

                      Comparing my Kit and my Wife’s kit
                      Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
                      Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
                      Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
                      Largest segment = 5.3 cM 517 SNPs
                      Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 663.4 cM

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Comparing my Kit and M020637 (Yamnaya_Sok_River I0443)
                        3,300 BC
                        Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
                        Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
                        Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
                        Largest segment = 7.1 cM 175 SNPs
                        Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 72.0 cM

                        Comparing my kit and M652848 (EHG_Oleniy_Ostrov I0061)
                        5,500 BC
                        Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
                        Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
                        Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM
                        Largest segment = 0.0 cM
                        Total of segments > 1 cM = 0.0 cM

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                          Comparing my Kit and M020637 (Yamnaya_Sok_River I0443)
                          3,300 BC
                          Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
                          Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
                          Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
                          Largest segment = 7.1 cM 175 SNPs
                          Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 72.0 cM

                          Comparing my kit and M652848 (EHG_Oleniy_Ostrov I0061)
                          5,500 BC
                          Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
                          Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
                          Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM
                          Largest segment = 0.0 cM
                          Total of segments > 1 cM = 0.0 cM
                          Comparing my Kit and M303249 (Esperstedt-MN I0172) 3,360 BC
                          Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
                          Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
                          Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
                          Largest segment = 4.2 cM 186 SNPs
                          Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 42.4 cM

                          Comparing my Kit and M117132 (Bell-Beaker I0112) 2,340 BC
                          Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
                          Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
                          Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
                          Largest segment = 6.2 cM 175 SNPs
                          Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 30.8 cM

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            One advice I would give when comparing ones results to archaic results is to use ones phased Data due to these small segments picking up multiple IBS segments created from combining values from your maternal and paternal chromosomes.

                            For example if I use my unphased results, I get the following

                            Comparing my Kit and F999918 (Loschbour, Lux., 8ky)
                            Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
                            Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
                            Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
                            Largest segment = 4.4 cM
                            Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 402.9 cM

                            Comparing my phased paternal and F999918 (Loschbour, Lux., 8ky)
                            Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
                            Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
                            Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
                            Largest segment = 3.0 cM
                            Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 34.9 cM

                            Comparing my phased Maternal and F999918 (Loschbour, Lux., 8ky)
                            Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
                            Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
                            Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
                            Largest segment = 3.3 cM
                            Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 38.3 cM

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by prairielad View Post
                              One advice I would give when comparing ones results to archaic results is to use ones phased Data due to these small segments picking up multiple IBS segments created from combining values from your maternal and paternal chromosomes.

                              For example if I use my unphased results, I get the following

                              Comparing my Kit and F999918 (Loschbour, Lux., 8ky)
                              Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
                              Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
                              Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
                              Largest segment = 4.4 cM
                              Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 402.9 cM

                              Comparing my phased paternal and F999918 (Loschbour, Lux., 8ky)
                              Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
                              Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
                              Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
                              Largest segment = 3.0 cM
                              Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 34.9 cM

                              Comparing my phased Maternal and F999918 (Loschbour, Lux., 8ky)
                              Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
                              Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
                              Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
                              Largest segment = 3.3 cM
                              Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 38.3 cM
                              I have no matching segments to the EHG Russian or El Trocs R1b1.

                              I would like someone to filter out all the SNPs from the Eurogenes K15 so that we are left with only the North_Sea and Atlantic SNPs.

                              Mine
                              Population
                              North_Sea 34.43%
                              Atlantic 31.38%
                              Baltic 13.42%
                              Eastern_Euro 7.33%
                              West_Med 5.38%
                              West_Asian 5.47%
                              East_Med -*
                              Red_Sea -*
                              South_Asian 1.95%
                              Southeast_Asian -*
                              Siberian -*
                              Amerindian 0.44%
                              Oceanian -*
                              Northeast_African 0.20%
                              Sub-Saharan -*

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                                I would like someone to filter out all the SNPs from the Eurogenes K15 so that we are left with only the North_Sea and Atlantic SNPs.
                                Yes, wouldn't that be peachy! Who needs to know about all those pesty SNPs that you don't think have any connection to your Irish ancestry? You really only need to see the SNPs for those populations you think represent your deep ancestry.

                                This thinking really represents a revolution in scientific method! The Ciaranesque system would eliminate any possibility of discovering a result that conflicts with previously held beliefs. It would make science so easy and personally satisfying.

                                Comment

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