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Eurogenes K13 and K15 4-Ancestors Oracle

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  • #61
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    You don't have to read it. It will not change how you feel about anything to do with dna
    You dont hàve to post on these forums yet you do. Provide the link please

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    • #62
      Originally posted by N21163 View Post
      You dont hàve to post on these forums yet you do. Provide the link please
      I can post on whatever forum I want to. I don't need your permission. Go to Eurogenes blog and read the comments yourself and don't be so lazy.

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      • #63
        It would be good manners to provide the link. What harm would it do you to do so?

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        • #64
          Originally posted by gatty View Post
          It would be good manners to provide the link. What harm would it do you to do so?
          "Marnie" has only a few comments among the 211 and I read all of them.

          "What I really don't understand is why having the knowledge and the tools, and having the opportunity to get ahead of the "mainstream", you seem to prefer to trail behind in a safe place."

          That would be a good question, not only for Davidski, but for *all* of the authors on the Haak paper, including Patterson and Reich.

          "The next paper from the Lazaridis, Reich, Patterson et al. team will have a different model, with genomes from other places to prove it. But by then it will be late for you to add anything new."

          Why is there a next paper from the Reich lab without an official retraction of their current very flawed paper, which received mass media attention?

          Having looked at the spreadsheets of the Haak data and the bar graphs that Mike Thomas generated, the "mass migration hypothesis" from the Steppe hypothesis, the very hypothesis that the Reich Lab hung their hat on, can only be supported at the extreme upper end of the error bars of their data.

          Moreover, there is no way for the Reich Lab paper to have made the assertion of Bronze Age migration from the Steppe directly associated with the timeframe for a hypothesized "proto indo European" homeland, whatever that is.

          I don't care what the Reich lab has to say any more. I'm tired of their overhyped half baked research. After the overly simplistic evolutionary models of the last five years, the flawed "Basal Eurasian Model" and this very overstated Haak paper, I have no confidence in the objectivity of the Reich lab at all.

          Moreover, I'd like to know why Reich Lab researchers are using pseudonyms to advance their research ideas, a phenomena that is known to further unlevel the playing field for women's voices in research. This is in direct opposition to the policies of the National Academy of Sciences."

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          • #65
            Originally posted by 1798 View Post
            I can post on whatever forum I want to. I don't need your permission. Go to Eurogenes blog and read the comments yourself and don't be so lazy.
            You really have issue with referencing or being asked to provide sources don't you?

            When you make reference to something or someone it is up to you to provide the source. It's being courteous and thorough but this seems to be beyond you at times.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by N21163 View Post
              You really have issue with referencing or being asked to provide sources don't you?

              When you make reference to something or someone it is up to you to provide the source. It's being courteous and thorough but this seems to be beyond you at times.
              I told you that I saw the comments on the Eurogenes blog. It is not up to me to provide anything for anyone. I search the web every day for the latest about dna and other people can do the same. If you don't believe me that is alright with me.

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              • #67
                [QUOTE=1798;404142If you don't believe me that is alright with me.[/QUOTE]

                Most folks are happy to give sources that add credibility to their comments and opinions.

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                • #68
                  This thread is dissolving into nonsense. Let's please advance the discussion or it would probably be best to just close it.

                  -Darren
                  Family Tree DNA

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                  • #69
                    "Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe ”

                    I think that a massive migration from the Steppe to western Europe did not happen.There was definitely some migration. The archaeological record shows that there was a lot of movement in the Bronze Age all over Europe but it was not just east to west. The fact that a man who died in Samara 4,900 years ago had north sea autosomal dna is proof of that.

                    I think that the first IE language arrived with the farmers from Anatolia and developed into different branches in western and northern Europe.The Beaker People from Iberia spread their particular brand all over western and central Europe. What role the R1b people played in all of this is still a work in progress.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                      "Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe ”

                      I think that a massive migration from the Steppe to western Europe did not happen.There was definitely some migration. The archaeological record shows that there was a lot of movement in the Bronze Age all over Europe but it was not just east to west. The fact that a man who died in Samara 4,900 years ago had north sea autosomal dna is proof of that.

                      I think that the first IE language arrived with the farmers from Anatolia and developed into different branches in western and northern Europe.The Beaker People from Iberia spread their particular brand all over western and central Europe. What role the R1b people played in all of this is still a work in progress.
                      And this is all based on what you have seen from admixture calculators on gedmatch?

                      These calculators have limitations and are a "best fit" (I use this term loosely) with their fixed parameters and vary depending on the sample populations used.

                      Trying to compare ancient results with modern results may draw some comparisons, but I don't think the admixture calculator results can be justified as "proof" of too much at this stage.

                      There is one thing I agree with you on and that is that R1b is still a work in progress.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by N21163 View Post
                        And this is all based on what you have seen from admixture calculators on gedmatch?

                        These calculators have limitations and are a "best fit" (I use this term loosely) with their fixed parameters and vary depending on the sample populations used.

                        Trying to compare ancient results with modern results may draw some comparisons, but I don't think the admixture calculator results can be justified as "proof" of too much at this stage.

                        There is one thing I agree with you on and that is that R1b is still a work in progress.
                        Yes you are right but they are all that we have to use at present. I think that the Eurogenes K15 is pretty accurate for my dna.

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                        • #72
                          I think everyone can find a calculator that produces about what they know (or think). The only problem is that it's not the same one for each ...

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                          • #73
                            I just use one calculator, K15. If it gets it right for my dna then it may get it right for others.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                              I just use one calculator, K15. If it gets it right for my dna then it may get it right for others.
                              Possibly but I wouldn't bank on it.

                              You feel that you have a firm grasp on your family history and have stated that you 16GG were all Irish.

                              From this though we can't state that people with the same or similar North Sea percentages (or alike) to you are Irish, European yes but that's about it.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Here are my K15 results:


                                Admix Results (sorted):

                                # Population Percent
                                1 North_Sea 34.80
                                2 Atlantic 28.54
                                3 Baltic 10.01
                                4 West_Med 9.92
                                5 Eastern_Euro 9.70
                                6 West_Asian 6.02


                                Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
                                15 components mode.

                                --------------------------------

                                Least-squares method.

                                Using 1 population approximation:
                                1 Southwest_English @ 3.977841
                                2 Southeast_English @ 4.509333
                                3 Irish @ 5.489300
                                4 West_Scottish @ 5.726855
                                5 North_Dutch @ 5.885452
                                6 Danish @ 5.993276
                                7 North_German @ 6.247803
                                8 Orcadian @ 6.496437
                                9 South_Dutch @ 7.348049
                                10 Norwegian @ 9.636036
                                11 West_German @ 9.683813
                                12 West_Norwegian @ 10.604095
                                13 Swedish @ 11.159334
                                14 French @ 12.316778
                                15 North_Swedish @ 13.633124
                                16 East_German @ 14.211920
                                17 Southwest_Finnish @ 18.192291
                                18 Austrian @ 19.186045
                                19 Hungarian @ 20.097219
                                20 Spanish_Cataluna @ 20.943020

                                Using 2 populations approximation:
                                1 50% Orcadian +50% South_Dutch @ 3.732604


                                Using 3 populations approximation:
                                1 50% Orcadian +25% South_Dutch +25% South_Dutch @ 3.732604


                                Using 4 populations approximation:
                                1 North_German + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.412429
                                2 North_German + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.452722
                                3 East_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.509201
                                4 North_German + Orcadian + South_Dutch + Southwest_English @ 3.550707
                                5 North_German + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.576926
                                6 North_German + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.584287
                                7 Danish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.617402
                                8 Irish + North_German + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.630312
                                9 Orcadian + South_Dutch + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.651769
                                10 North_Dutch + Orcadian + South_Dutch + Southwest_English @ 3.653167
                                11 Danish + Orcadian + South_Dutch + Southwest_English @ 3.663790
                                12 North_Dutch + North_German + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.666120
                                13 Orcadian + South_Dutch + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.669039
                                14 Irish + Orcadian + South_Dutch + Southwest_English @ 3.674242
                                15 Danish + North_German + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.681174
                                16 East_German + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.684773
                                17 East_German + Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.688895
                                18 North_Dutch + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.690384
                                19 Orcadian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 3.730864
                                20 Orcadian + Orcadian + South_Dutch + South_Dutch @ 3.732604

                                So what happened to the Irish?

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