Eurogenes K13 and K15 4-Ancestors Oracle

[1798]

What peer-reviewed published evidence do you have for a possible migration from Europe to the Steppe?

None. Good I'm glad we cleared that up.



I can see that you don't have any evidence other that what you think you see in gedmatch admixture calculators.



I'm sure that you recall previous discussions about such calculators, the limitations of applying them to ancient samples and the labels of the grouping used.

Are you choosing to ignore them because you are convinced of something else?

It is what I see not what I think I see. The K15 calculator shows that Clovis was a Native American and that is correct.
The K15 is correct for my dna results so fair play to the person who created it.

[N21163]

It is what I see not what I think I see. The K15 calculator shows that Clovis was a Native American and that is correct.
The K15 is correct for my dna results so fair play to the person who created it.

The K15 calculator works for you, as far as you can tell from your known genealogy. Good for you.

Between that and using results to try and justify a western european migration east to the Steppe (when all other research states the contrary) is a large leap.

[1798]

The K15 calculator works for you, as far as you can tell from your known genealogy. Good for you.

Between that and using results to try and justify a western european migration east to the Steppe (when all other research states the contrary) is a large leap.

I am not trying to justify anything. The man who created the calculator writes a lot of posts and I don't know why he cannot see what I can see.


"Peer-reviewed", that is the reason the Titanic sank and thousands lost their lives.

[N21163]

I am not trying to justify anything. The man who created the calculator writes a lot of posts and I don't know why he cannot see what I can see.

What? I do not recall ever mentioning anything about the person who created the K15 calculator, Davidski (Polako), or his blogs.
Why would you bring him up?

"Peer-reviewed", that is the reason the Titanic sank and thousands lost their lives.

Hmmm it seems you have a few things mixed up.
The titanic would not have sunk if the iceberg was struck head on.

That aside, why are you digressing?

Do you not have confidence in academic research?
Do you not understand academic research?

Please note this is not any attempt to engage you with sarcasm, these are legitimate questions and I would like to know your answer.

[1798]

What? I do not recall ever mentioning anything about the person who created the K15 calculator, Davidski (Polako), or his blogs.
Why would you bring him up?



Hmmm it seems you have a few things mixed up.
The titanic would not have sunk if the iceberg was struck head on.

That aside, why are you digressing?

Do you not have confidence in academic research?
Do you not understand academic research?

Please note this is not any attempt to engage you with sarcasm, these are legitimate questions and I would like to know your answer.

The Titanic sank because some academics said that it was unsinkable.


I have confidence only in myself.

[MikeP]

Actually I don't know a single academic who said that the titanic was unsinkable. Do you have a reference? The engineer who designed it went down with the ship.

Tis said that the Irish are argumentative. Methinks that you're trying too hard to prove that you're Irish ...

[1798]

Actually I don't know a single academic who said that the titanic was unsinkable. Do you have a reference? The engineer who designed it went down with the ship.

Tis said that the Irish are argumentative. Methinks that you're trying too hard to prove that you're Irish ...

I don't need to prove anything. I was born in Ireland and so were my ancestors.

[MikeP]

I don't need to prove anything. I was born in Ireland and so were my ancestors.

Then why do you feel the need to keep proving it?

[MMaddi]

I don't need to prove anything. I was born in Ireland and so were my ancestors.

Just what I've been saying for a long time now. Very touchy about the question of Irish ancestry and overcompensating big time.

[John Doe]

I'm Ashkenazi Jewish
My K13 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 33.78
2 North_Atlantic 20.53
3 West_Med 19.26
4 West_Asian 13.97
5 Baltic 5.63
6 Red_Sea 4.53
7 East_Asian 1.02
8 Northeast_African 0.88
9 Oceanian 0.24
10 Sub-Saharan 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.2
2 East_Sicilian 6.33
3 West_Sicilian 6.43
4 Italian_Abruzzo 6.47
5 Central_Greek 7.09
6 Ashkenazi 7.2
7 Sephardic_Jewish 7.49
8 Italian_Jewish 7.65
9 Algerian_Jewish 9.73
10 Tunisian_Jewish 11.99
11 Tuscan 12.17
12 Greek_Thessaly 12.3
13 Libyan_Jewish 13.01
14 Cyprian 15.96
15 North_Italian 18.63
16 Lebanese_Muslim 18.94
17 Bulgarian 20.38
18 Syrian 20.4
19 Turkish 20.9
20 Lebanese_Druze 21.93

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.9% Lebanese_Druze + 45.1% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.44
2 55.7% Lebanese_Druze + 44.3% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.46
3 54.1% North_Italian + 45.9% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.54
4 60.2% Lebanese_Druze + 39.8% Southwest_French @ 2.63
5 64.7% Tuscan + 35.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.65
6 54.9% Italian_Abruzzo + 45.1% Italian_Jewish @ 2.71
7 58.8% Lebanese_Druze + 41.2% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.73
8 56.8% Lebanese_Druze + 43.2% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.74
9 56.5% Lebanese_Druze + 43.5% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.8
10 58.8% Lebanese_Druze + 41.2% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.91
11 55% Lebanese_Druze + 45% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.02
12 54.7% Italian_Abruzzo + 45.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.19
13 56.5% Lebanese_Druze + 43.5% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.22
14 54.3% Lebanese_Druze + 45.7% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.31
15 66.4% Lebanese_Druze + 33.6% French_Basque @ 3.33
16 79.9% West_Sicilian + 20.1% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.39
17 54.6% Lebanese_Druze + 45.4% Portuguese @ 3.42
18 67.7% Italian_Abruzzo + 32.3% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.42
19 55.3% Lebanese_Christian + 44.7% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.69
20 85.9% Italian_Jewish + 14.1% North_German @ 3.78


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Abruzzo +50% Italian_Jewish @ 3.042461


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% North_Italian +25% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.302985


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + North_Italian + Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.302985
2 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + North_Italian + Spanish_Valencia @ 2.503751
3 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Tuscan @ 2.560971
4 Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + South_Italian + Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.564851
5 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + North_Italian + Spanish_Murcia @ 2.648963
6 Italian_Abruzzo + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + North_Italian @ 2.684981
7 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Tuscan @ 2.714678
8 Ashkenazi + French_Basque + Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze @ 2.722955
9 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + North_Italian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.723099
10 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Cantabria + Tuscan @ 2.725746
11 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Valencia + Tuscan @ 2.730022
12 Central_Greek + French_Basque + Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze @ 2.736508
13 Lebanese_Druze + Sephardic_Jewish + South_Italian + Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.760667
14 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Andalucia + Tuscan @ 2.763940
15 Italian_Abruzzo + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Valencia @ 2.798284
16 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_French + Tuscan @ 2.807232
17 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + North_Italian + Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.809789
18 Central_Greek + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.827707
19 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Cataluna + Tuscan @ 2.829289
20 Italian_Abruzzo + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.832493


K15


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 25.84
2 Atlantic 18.81
3 West_Asian 16.98
4 West_Med 14.55
5 North_Sea 8.77
6 Red_Sea 6.88
7 Baltic 4.48
8 Eastern_Euro 1.48
9 Northeast_African 1.22
10 Southeast_Asian 0.77
11 Oceanian 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 4.6
2 East_Sicilian 6.29
3 West_Sicilian 6.72
4 Central_Greek 6.78
5 South_Italian 6.95
6 Ashkenazi 8.82
7 Sephardic_Jewish 9.7
8 Italian_Jewish 10.36
9 Greek 10.48
10 Tuscan 10.48
11 Algerian_Jewish 12.12
12 Greek_Thessaly 12.29
13 Tunisian_Jewish 13.99
14 North_Italian 16.59
15 Bulgarian 16.68
16 Cyprian 17.03
17 Libyan_Jewish 17.32
18 Turkish 17.71
19 Romanian 18.49
20 Lebanese_Muslim 18.94

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.7% Assyrian + 47.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.14
2 65.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 34.6% French_Basque @ 3.25
3 50.8% Assyrian + 49.2% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.31
4 51.4% Spanish_Andalucia + 48.6% Assyrian @ 3.31
5 50.2% Assyrian + 49.8% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.54
6 51.2% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 48.8% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.6
7 56.6% Lebanese_Muslim + 43.4% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.61
8 58.1% Kurdish_Jewish + 41.9% French_Basque @ 3.61
9 86.3% West_Sicilian + 13.7% Georgian @ 3.61
10 53.4% Spanish_Andalucia + 46.6% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.63
11 87.5% West_Sicilian + 12.5% Abhkasian @ 3.64
12 50.7% Kurdish_Jewish + 49.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.65
13 58.5% Lebanese_Muslim + 41.5% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.66
14 60% Lebanese_Muslim + 40% Southwest_French @ 3.68
15 51% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 49% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.74
16 60% Assyrian + 40% French_Basque @ 3.78
17 52.2% Kurdish_Jewish + 47.8% Southwest_French @ 3.78
18 56.1% Lebanese_Muslim + 43.9% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.79
19 54.5% Lebanese_Muslim + 45.5% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.8
20 51% Iranian_Jewish + 49% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.81

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Assyrian +50% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.731810


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Assyrian +25% French_Basque +25% Tuscan @ 3.480486


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 French_Basque + Georgian_Jewish + Lebanese_Muslim + Tuscan @ 2.467458
2 French_Basque + Georgian_Jewish + Italian_Abruzzo + Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.491927
3 Central_Greek + French_Basque + Georgian_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.505173
4 Assyrian + French_Basque + Lebanese_Muslim + Tuscan @ 2.628337
5 East_Sicilian + French_Basque + Georgian_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.644720
6 Assyrian + French_Basque + Italian_Abruzzo + Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.748819
7 French_Basque + Georgian_Jewish + Lebanese_Muslim + West_Sicilian @ 2.751079
8 French_Basque + Georgian_Jewish + Syrian + Tuscan @ 2.779338
9 Armenian + French_Basque + Palestinian + Tuscan @ 2.787320
10 French_Basque + Italian_Abruzzo + Lebanese_Christian + Turkish @ 2.807311
11 French_Basque + Georgian_Jewish + Italian_Abruzzo + Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.834788
12 East_Sicilian + French_Basque + Georgian_Jewish + Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.840907
13 French_Basque + Georgian_Jewish + Jordanian + Tuscan @ 2.846884
14 French_Basque + Georgian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Tuscan @ 2.853690
15 Armenian + French_Basque + Italian_Abruzzo + Palestinian @ 2.853763
16 French_Basque + Italian_Abruzzo + Lebanese_Muslim + Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.875785
17 French_Basque + Georgian_Jewish + Palestinian + Tuscan @ 2.884857
18 Georgian_Jewish + Italian_Abruzzo + Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 2.885545
19 Ashkenazi + French_Basque + Georgian_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.916675
20 Assyrian + French_Basque + Italian_Abruzzo + Syrian @ 2.923660

[1798]

Then why do you feel the need to keep proving it?

What are you on about?

[1798]

Just what I've been saying for a long time now. Very touchy about the question of Irish ancestry and overcompensating big time.

You are very touchy about ancient R1b in western Europe.

[MMaddi]

You are very touchy about ancient R1b in western Europe.

That's right. I insist on using scientific evidence to come up with what seems likely and thoroughly reject agendas and wishful thinking.

I believe that the current scientific evidence supports what I and many other R1b researchers in genetic genealogy believe. At the point the evidence shows something different, I'll adjust my views to what the new evidence supports.

How about you?

[1798]

That's right. I insist on using scientific evidence to come up with what seems likely and thoroughly reject agendas and wishful thinking.

I believe that the current scientific evidence supports what I and many other R1b researchers in genetic genealogy believe. At the point the evidence shows something different, I'll adjust my views to what the new evidence supports.

How about you?

When all the evidence is produced then we will see.

[1798]

Hinxton 5 K13 1300 ybp F999925
Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Irish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 2.823130
2 Irish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.842766
3 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 2.863365
4 Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.899787
5 West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.014946
6 Irish + Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.084194
7 Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.084972
8 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 3.119178
9 Irish + Irish + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 3.136187
10 Irish + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 3.141095
11 Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.141229
12 Danish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.204917
13 Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.220062
14 Danish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.221473
15 Irish + Irish + Irish + Norwegian @ 3.227695
16 Danish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 3.245053
17 North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.245249
18 Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.246083
19 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 3.276155
20 Danish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 3.318298