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Eurogenes K13 and K15 4-Ancestors Oracle

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  • N21163
    replied
    Originally posted by LynCra View Post
    Maybe not, but I have no idea why you would not want to communicate with me and other folks who are trying to learn from this forum. Whilst I enjoy cryptic crosswords, I find your level of cryptic communication here beyond me, so I will have to admit I am too thick to understand much of what you are trying to tell us. It would, however, be interesting to know who you would like to communicate with and what skills you expect from your audience.
    You are not thick LynCra, Ciaran there are times Ciaran (like all of us) does not express himself well. I will give him his due, he looks at a lot of internet sites and posts a lot of articles.

    Unfortunately, most of the time it doesn't go beyond the abstract stage of the article and he cherry-picks results that suit him. When he is criticised about this he takes it as a personal attack and a series of circular arguments usually ensue. If he was to consider ALL of the cross-discipline research that is currently being presented he may gain a better understanding and be able to express his ideas better. Sadly, this isn't done.

    Quick-fix options are usually not the answer, and at the moment he is fixated on the admixture calculators on gedmatch.com attempting to "prove" the association between ancient samples and their connection with Ireland. Ultimately trying to prove that ALL of his ancestry is ancient. This could acutally turn out to be the case, but he is going about it the wrong way. For some reason he has a hard time accepting that genetic science and genetic genealogy isn't progressing as quickly as he would like.

    On another note, I think Ciaran doesn't realise that the admixture calculators are a "best fit" calculation, and that's why different calculators produce different results...they do not actually (at this stage) prove the associations of ancient DNA remains, as the admixture calculators are based on modern population samples. In time, we may be able to refine these further.

    Similar reasoning would be trying to compare a single piece of copper ore with a piece of Bronze and trying to ascertain how alike the copper is to the bronze. If the process was flipped we could workout how much copper is in the bronze.

    Furthermore, you will notice these results that are posted list certain populations and then have a number after them i.e.
    Irish, Irish, German, North German @ 10.4...the higher the number at the end the less likely this "best fit" of 4 populations is true.

    When comparing our own results to ancient remains on gedmatch, it would be best to phase results, one being that we will be able to determine which side of our family has greater associations i.e. mother/father families and ancestry. Phased results will also give a more refined result of how much association there is.
    Last edited by N21163; 13 March 2015, 07:00 PM.

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  • LynCra
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    Do you think that I want to communicate with you?
    Maybe not, but I have no idea why you would not want to communicate with me and other folks who are trying to learn from this forum. Whilst I enjoy cryptic crosswords, I find your level of cryptic communication here beyond me, so I will have to admit I am too thick to understand much of what you are trying to tell us. It would, however, be interesting to know who you would like to communicate with and what skills you expect from your audience.

    Leave a comment:


  • MMaddi
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    Do you think that I want to communicate with you?
    Now, now, Ciaran. No need to be rude. I expect you to be rude to me and really don't mind, but what has LynCra done to you to deserve that sort of uncivilized response? You really do your cause no good by that sort of behavior.

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  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by LynCra View Post
    Then why write it if it is too cryptic for us lesser mortals to understand? Surely the objective of putting something on this forum is to communicate with others, not just with oneself
    Do you think that I want to communicate with you?

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  • LynCra
    replied
    Then why write it if it is too cryptic for us lesser mortals to understand? Surely the objective of putting something on this forum is to communicate with others, not just with oneself

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  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by MikeP View Post
    1798, I wish you'd not post a bunch of numbers without a couple of sentences about what you're trying to show with them ...
    I am sorry MikeP that a lot of what I write is cryptic. I am not able to explain what I am thinking most of the time.

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  • MikeP
    replied
    1798, I wish you'd not post a bunch of numbers without a couple of sentences about what you're trying to show with them ...

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    The Hungarian F999933 1,110-1,270 BC was a Celt from western Europe.

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  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
    My point is still the same. You'd like to be able to cherry pick the results to be able to "prove" what you've always believed - that your deep ancestry has nothing to do with any people outside Europe.

    Why do you go to all this trouble? If you're going to believe it and dismiss any evidence to the contrary, why do you even need evidence at all?
    I didn't get dna tested to find out about my 60,000 ybp relatives. I just wanted to go beyond the brick wall.

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  • MMaddi
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    You don't understand me and so you decide as usual to attack me. The North Sea and the Atlantic dna are specific to western Europe,not just Ireland.
    My point is still the same. You'd like to be able to cherry pick the results to be able to "prove" what you've always believed - that your deep ancestry has nothing to do with any people outside Europe.

    Why do you go to all this trouble? If you're going to believe it and dismiss any evidence to the contrary, why do you even need evidence at all?

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  • 1798
    replied
    Hungary F999933 1,110-1,270 BC
    Population *
    North_Sea 22.92%
    Atlantic 25.71%
    Baltic 15.34%
    Eastern_Euro 10.93%
    West_Med 15.58%
    West_Asian - * *
    East_Med 7.19%
    Red_Sea 1.95%
    South_Asian - * *
    Southeast_Asian - * *
    Siberian - * *
    Amerindian - * *
    Oceanian 0.17%
    Northeast_African - * *
    Sub-Saharan 0.21%


    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Austrian @ 10.497912
    2 East_German @ 10.821527
    3 French @ 11.120517
    4 South_Dutch @ 11.205068
    5 Hungarian @ 13.067357
    6 Spanish_Cataluna @ 13.367683
    7 Spanish_Galicia @ 13.597143
    8 Serbian @ 14.231913
    9 Portuguese @ 14.409566
    10 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 14.457103
    11 West_German @ 14.730566
    12 Southwest_French @ 15.313860
    13 Croatian @ 15.376380
    14 Spanish_Extremadura @ 15.861346
    15 North_German @ 15.882734
    16 Spanish_Murcia @ 16.068432
    17 Spanish_Cantabria @ 16.095221
    18 Southwest_English @ 16.281326
    19 Spanish_Valencia @ 16.699163
    20 Southeast_English @ 17.175747

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Spanish_Aragon +50% Ukrainian @ 4.532459


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Danish +25% Estonian_Polish +25% Sardinian @ 4.145594


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Lithuanian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Valencia + West_German @ 3.575486
    2 Estonian + Hungarian + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.579856
    3 Lithuanian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Murcia + West_German @ 3.588367
    4 Estonian + Hungarian + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.614256
    5 East_German + Estonian + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.631271
    6 Lithuanian + Portuguese + South_Dutch + Southwest_French @ 3.645180
    7 Lithuanian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon + West_German @ 3.678356
    8 Southwest_Finnish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Valencia + Ukrainian @ 3.682348
    9 Estonian + Hungarian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.699773
    10 East_German + Estonian + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.703920
    11 Lithuanian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Extremadura + West_German @ 3.706793
    12 French + Lithuanian + Portuguese + Southwest_French @ 3.718743
    13 Southwest_Finnish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Murcia + Ukrainian @ 3.719042
    14 East_German + Estonian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.721538
    15 East_German + Estonian + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.727219
    16 Lithuanian + Spanish_Cantabria + Spanish_Valencia + West_German @ 3.730143
    17 Southwest_Finnish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon + Ukrainian @ 3.731053
    18 Lithuanian + South_Dutch + Southwest_French + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.738453
    19 Estonian_Polish + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cataluna + West_German @ 3.739580
    20 East_German + Estonian + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.741643

    Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
    1 58324022 60301951 3.1 605
    1 161846579 163458326 3.2 474
    1 242381483 243190107 3.1 224
    2 8522541 9857801 3.6 316
    2 42363333 44550660 3.2 554
    2 98552299 103109002 3.6 1084
    2 130250751 132991112 3.7 305
    8 65600675 69622891 3.0 843
    9 86036753 88459081 3.8 671
    9 129909844 131542622 3.3 429
    10 4813414 6305408 3.8 588
    10 91634406 94958206 3.2 822
    10 126891920 128190687 3.3 450
    12 1807772 3525356 5.1 564
    14 22441620 23639258 4.0 368
    15 96227956 97417482 3.2 428
    18 7220612 7872917 3.1 210
    19 5420695 7014372 4.3 447
    20 4977207 5676237 3.7 215
    22 20746006 21896019 3.3 179
    22 26160956 28514950 3.3 560

    Largest segment = 5.1 cM
    Total of segments > 3 cM = 73.8 cM

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  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
    Yes, wouldn't that be peachy! Who needs to know about all those pesty SNPs that you don't think have any connection to your Irish ancestry? You really only need to see the SNPs for those populations you think represent your deep ancestry.

    This thinking really represents a revolution in scientific method! The Ciaranesque system would eliminate any possibility of discovering a result that conflicts with previously held beliefs. It would make science so easy and personally satisfying.
    You don't understand me and so you decide as usual to attack me. The North Sea and the Atlantic dna are specific to western Europe,not just Ireland.

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  • N21163
    replied
    Originally posted by prairielad View Post
    One advice I would give when comparing ones results to archaic results is to use ones phased Data due to these small segments picking up multiple IBS segments created from combining values from your maternal and paternal chromosomes....
    I agree.
    I have attached my un-phased results plus phased maternal and paternal results below.

    With the parameters that have been used throughout I get consistent matches (on both phased kits) with the following samples:

    F999937 (NE1, Hungary, 7.2ky)
    F999916 (LBK, Stuttgart, 7ky)
    F999933 (BR2, Hungary, 3.2ky)
    F999935 (Ust-Ishim,Siberia, 45ky)
    F999918 (Loschbour, Lux., 8ky)
    F999919 (Clovis, Montana, 12.5ky)

    My maternal phased kit has small matches with:

    F999936 (Kostenki14,Russia, 37ky)
    F999915 (La Brana, Spain, 7ky)

    My paternal phased kit has small matches with:

    F999917 (Motala-12, Sweden, 7ky)
    F999915 (La Brana, Spain, 7ky)

    A lot of my genealogical information is based around the British Isles and Ireland. I was curious to find virtually no matching with the Hinxton samples. It seems my autosomal DNA reflects more of a connection (albeit extremely minor connection given the parameters of analysis) with samples found in central European regions (Hungary, Stuttgart and Luxembourg) and with older samples from Siberia and the Clovis sample from Montana.

    It would be interesting to know what sort of trends others are finding with their phased data...?
    Attached Files

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  • MMaddi
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    I would like someone to filter out all the SNPs from the Eurogenes K15 so that we are left with only the North_Sea and Atlantic SNPs.
    Yes, wouldn't that be peachy! Who needs to know about all those pesty SNPs that you don't think have any connection to your Irish ancestry? You really only need to see the SNPs for those populations you think represent your deep ancestry.

    This thinking really represents a revolution in scientific method! The Ciaranesque system would eliminate any possibility of discovering a result that conflicts with previously held beliefs. It would make science so easy and personally satisfying.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by prairielad View Post
    One advice I would give when comparing ones results to archaic results is to use ones phased Data due to these small segments picking up multiple IBS segments created from combining values from your maternal and paternal chromosomes.

    For example if I use my unphased results, I get the following

    Comparing my Kit and F999918 (Loschbour, Lux., 8ky)
    Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
    Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
    Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
    Largest segment = 4.4 cM
    Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 402.9 cM

    Comparing my phased paternal and F999918 (Loschbour, Lux., 8ky)
    Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
    Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
    Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
    Largest segment = 3.0 cM
    Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 34.9 cM

    Comparing my phased Maternal and F999918 (Loschbour, Lux., 8ky)
    Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 150 SNPs
    Mismatch-bunching Limit = 75 SNPs
    Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.5 cM
    Largest segment = 3.3 cM
    Total of segments > 1.5 cM = 38.3 cM
    I have no matching segments to the EHG Russian or El Trocs R1b1.

    I would like someone to filter out all the SNPs from the Eurogenes K15 so that we are left with only the North_Sea and Atlantic SNPs.

    Mine
    Population
    North_Sea 34.43%
    Atlantic 31.38%
    Baltic 13.42%
    Eastern_Euro 7.33%
    West_Med 5.38%
    West_Asian 5.47%
    East_Med -*
    Red_Sea -*
    South_Asian 1.95%
    Southeast_Asian -*
    Siberian -*
    Amerindian 0.44%
    Oceanian -*
    Northeast_African 0.20%
    Sub-Saharan -*

    Leave a comment:

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