Endogamy

[1798]

Yeah, I'm off somewhat. It looks more like first cousin twice removed(?). Greens marrying Greens. One of those Green lines goes back to the Netherlands. I still haven't added the second colonial governor of Maryland to my current official tree. He was in office only a short time before he died of some fever.

http://www.y-str.org/2014/12/pedigre...alculator.html

I downloaded felix's latest modal and my wife and I are fifth cousins which is within reason.

[PDHOTLEN]

I've never tried to download raw data for calculating and such like. But and however, I recently settled on a particular maternal line as being valid since I have a match with tree at Ancestry. This is my Green maternal line (paternal within a maternal branch). One guy along the way, if I remember right, has a maternal grandmother who is also his first cousin once removed. I hope I figured that out right. This was way back in colonial Maryland. Apparently that family was very finicky about marrying outside of their social group (relatives and immediate descendants of the founding Calverts).

Yeah, I'm off somewhat. It looks more like first cousin twice removed(?). Greens marrying Greens. One of those Green lines goes back to the Netherlands. I still haven't added the second colonial governor of Maryland to my current official tree. He was in office only a short time before he died of some fever.

[PDHOTLEN]

I've never tried to download raw data for calculating and such like. But and however, I recently settled on a particular maternal line as being valid since I have a match with tree at Ancestry. This is my Green maternal line (paternal within a maternal branch). One guy along the way, if I remember right, has a maternal grandmother who is also his first cousin once removed. I hope I figured that out right. This was way back in colonial Maryland. Apparently that family was very finicky about marrying outside of their social group (relatives and immediate descendants of the founding Calverts).

[AFH]

http://www.orcades.ed.ac.uk/populationgenetics.html

"Human genetic variation is not distributed randomly across the world, because we do not mate randomly, humans have always tended to marry within their community."

Thanks for the link perhaps some day the technology will be refined to the point where I'll be able to identify my ancestrial villages on the European Continent.

[1798]

ROH

http://www.orcades.ed.ac.uk/populationgenetics.html

"Human genetic variation is not distributed randomly across the world, because we do not mate randomly, humans have always tended to marry within their community."

[PNGarrison]

Noticed this discussion and it reminded me of a paper I stumbled on recently. Sounds like there is scattered earlier evidence of endogamy, and it must have been common when hunter gatherers were in small bands (although they probably also captured women from other groups or acquired mates during times when different groups gathered for some big party.)

PLoS One. 2013 Jun 11;8(6):e65649. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0065649.
Earliest evidence for social endogamy in the 9,000-year-old-population of Basta, Jordan.
Alt KW1, Benz M, Müller W, Berner ME, Schultz M, Schmidt-Schultz TH, Knipper C, Gebel HG, Nissen HJ, Vach W.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23776517

Abstract
The transition from mobile to sedentary life was one of the greatest social challenges of the human past. Yet little is known about the impact of this fundamental change on social interactions amongst early Neolithic communities, which are best recorded in the Near East. The importance of social processes associated with these economic and ecological changes has long been underestimated. However, ethnographic observations demonstrate that generalized reciprocity - such as open access to resources and land - had to be reduced to a circumscribed group before regular farming and herding could be successfully established. Our aim was thus to investigate the role of familial relationships as one possible factor within this process of segregation as recorded directly in the skeletal remains, rather than based on hypothetical correlations such as house types and social units. Here we present the revealing results of the systematically recorded epigenetic characteristics of teeth and skulls of the late Pre-Pottery Neolithic community of Basta in Southern Jordan (Figure S1). Additionally, mobility was reconstructed via a systematic strontium (Sr) isotope analysis of tooth enamel of the Basta individuals. The frequency of congenitally missing maxillary lateral incisors in the 9,000-year-old community of Basta is exceptionally high (35.7%). Genetic studies and a worldwide comparison of the general rate of this dental anomaly in modern and historic populations show that the enhanced frequency can only be explained by close familial relationships akin to endogamy. This is supported by strontium isotope analyses of teeth, indicating a local origin of almost all investigated individuals. Yet, the accompanying archaeological finds document far-reaching economic exchange with neighboring groups and a population density hitherto unparalleled. We thus conclude that endogamy in the early Neolithic village of Basta was not due to geographic isolation or a lack of exogamous mating partners but a socio-cultural choice.

[larzus]

I think I was just tired.

I've spent a lot of time on my own results, and I wanted to know where I had got it right .

At least I understand now why I was so confused. I'd picked up that some matches seemed to match both sides, but I thought that was an error in my reasoning. It wasn't.

Limerick and Tipperary, that's what it is. Both maternal and paternal sides have one branch from each. Actually, so do both my husband's parents.

I'm sorting out the segments very well now. Making great progress.

[dna]

I was thinking the worst case scenario two married people take the family finder test and discover they are half siblings or even closer. Just thinking it's possible.

Supposedly there are registries that keep track of half-siblings from sperm banks. However, I was under the impression that parents do not need to tell their children that a sperm bank was involved. And, based on surveys, decisively more than 50% of parents do not tell their children.

Due to the World War II, in 1960s in Europe, there were a couple of documented cases of siblings getting married, as they had been separated by war being very young. And without biological parents around they could not establish their true identity. In one case I recall, they had visited his ancestral home around twenty years after the war, and she realized that she was there before and the girl their (his & her) family thought it was her killed in the bombardment must have been some other girl...

W.

[AFH]

I was thinking the worst case scenario two married people take the family finder test and discover they are half siblings or even closer. Just thinking it's possible.

[dna]

I'm feeling a bit downhearted about the whole family finder thing tonight. Endogamy has almost beaten me.

I was very excited when my parents agreed to test. I thought when the tests came through I'd be able to sort my matches into paternal or maternal.

But no. Seems I am a closer predicted relation to a whole heap of matches than either parent. Father matches one segment. Mother matches a different segment. I match a smaller portion of each segment but added together it makes a bigger overall match.

Oh well. I'll take a fresh look tomorrow to see if I can sort it out.

Not sure why you would look at your Family Finder matches, once you have your parents Family Finder results...

W.

[1798]

I'm feeling a bit downhearted about the whole family finder thing tonight. Endogamy has almost beaten me.

I was very excited when my parents agreed to test. I thought when the tests came through I'd be able to sort my matches into paternal or maternal.

But no. Seems I am a closer predicted relation to a whole heap of matches than either parent. Father matches one segment. Mother matches a different segment. I match a smaller portion of each segment but added together it makes a bigger overall match.

Oh well. I'll take a fresh look tomorrow to see if I can sort it out.

I am getting my wife tested and my son and I already have FF results. I am am going to try and sort out my cousins from hers but if I can't do it,it will not be the end of the world.

[larzus]

I'm feeling a bit downhearted about the whole family finder thing tonight. Endogamy has almost beaten me.

I was very excited when my parents agreed to test. I thought when the tests came through I'd be able to sort my matches into paternal or maternal.

But no. Seems I am a closer predicted relation to a whole heap of matches than either parent. Father matches one segment. Mother matches a different segment. I match a smaller portion of each segment but added together it makes a bigger overall match.

Oh well. I'll take a fresh look tomorrow to see if I can sort it out.

[1798]

Pedigree Collapse Calculator

How accurate is this crazy tool?

It said my parents are 4th cousins and the same result to two of my father's matches.

Then I tried to run my dad's result and it says his parents are 4th cousin.

This calculator shows that the ancient dna was not contaminated by humans during the testing process because Mal'ta boy's parent show up as siblings. I hope that felix continues to work on these great and free tools and thanks again.

[1798]

I got 4th cousins too, but I know for a fact that my parents are not related (at least anywhere near that close). My mother was Amish and my father wasn't. When I ran a similar tool in GEDmatch, it came up that they weren't related.

It is possible my wife and I are fourth cousins as our ancestors came from the same region.

[sas377]

How accurate is this crazy tool?

It said my parents are 4th cousins and the same result to two of my father's matches.

Then I tried to run my dad's result and it says his parents are 4th cousin.

I got 4th cousins too, but I know for a fact that my parents are not related (at least anywhere near that close). My mother was Amish and my father wasn't. When I ran a similar tool in GEDmatch, it came up that they weren't related.