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The next Ice Age.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by S9 H9 View Post
    I had forgotten about the Venus, and it is a good example (along with other items from the cave) of early art. Unfortunately we don't know who made these items, or from where they originated.

    It has been proposed before that one path for modern humans to move up (from the Black Sea area) into Northern Europe was along the Danube, and Schelklingen, Germany isn't that far from the Danube.
    The oldest one was found in Germany and the one in Siberia found beside the Mal'ta boy was 24,000 ybp. People moved up and down the Danube. It wasn't all one way traffic.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by dna View Post
      658-687 kilometres of Danube are in today's Germany
      Commas do count Surprise, surprise (This embarrassment is supposed to be a red face, not a smiley face...)

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      • #18
        Originally posted by 1798 View Post
        The oldest one was found in Germany and the one in Siberia found beside the Mal'ta boy was 24,000 ybp. People moved up and down the Danube. It wasn't all one way traffic.

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        • #19
          Modern humans had spread into northern Europe, Russia and Siberia before the LGM, and there are two mtDNA haplogroup U5 samples dated at 31,155 years ago at Dolni Vestonice in the Czech Republic. This suggests continuity of Paleolithic humans in Europe, i.e., they retreated to southern refugia at the time of the LGM and then expanded north again as the ice retreated.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by GST View Post
            Modern humans had spread into northern Europe, Russia and Siberia before the LGM, and there are two mtDNA haplogroup U5 samples dated at 31,155 years ago at Dolni Vestonice in the Czech Republic. This suggests continuity of Paleolithic humans in Europe, i.e., they retreated to southern refugia at the time of the LGM and then expanded north again as the ice retreated.
            We northern Europeans are the descendants of the Ice-Age refugees. I am absolutely certain of that.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by 1798 View Post
              We northern Europeans are the descendants of the Ice-Age refugees. I am absolutely certain of that.
              We have a very small amount of ancestry from Paleolithic Europeans who retreated to ice age refugia, but it's clear from the DNA evidence that there were multiple waves of migration into Europe from the Near East farmers and Steppe pastoralists in the Neolithic and metal ages. Of course, some of those Steppe pastorlists and Near East farmers may also have been partly descended from Ice-Age refugees. Much of the U5 in Europe today might be from Neolithic farmers and herders. I expect we will get more clarity on the amount contributed by each group when we have more ancient autosomal DNA.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by GST View Post
                We have a very small amount of ancestry from Paleolithic Europeans who retreated to ice age refugia, but it's clear from the DNA evidence that there were multiple waves of migration into Europe from the Near East farmers and Steppe pastoralists in the Neolithic and metal ages. Of course, some of those Steppe pastorlists and Near East farmers may also have been partly descended from Ice-Age refugees. Much of the U5 in Europe today might be from Neolithic farmers and herders. I expect we will get more clarity on the amount contributed by each group when we have more ancient autosomal DNA.
                There were multiple waves of migration into Europe from 60,000 years ago when our ancestors first left Africa.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by GST View Post
                  We have a very small amount of ancestry from Paleolithic Europeans who retreated to ice age refugia, but it's clear from the DNA evidence that there were multiple waves of migration into Europe from the Near East farmers and Steppe pastoralists in the Neolithic and metal ages. Of course, some of those Steppe pastorlists and Near East farmers may also have been partly descended from Ice-Age refugees. Much of the U5 in Europe today might be from Neolithic farmers and herders. I expect we will get more clarity on the amount contributed by each group when we have more ancient autosomal DNA.
                  Much of the U5 in Europe today might be from Neolithic farmers and herders who were originally hunter-gatherers in western Europe.
                  R1b group spent 12,000 years as Ice-Age refugees but which refuge were they in? That is the big question.

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